Thursday, June 13, 2013

Demographics of Jews in Israel and Their DNA Haplogroups Updated

Nadene Goldfoot                                                              
Notice the cartoon I chose of the Jewish man cutting off his nose.  His Roman nose has been a sign of him being Jewish.  Not all Jewish men have such noses but many do, something they have in common with many Arabs as well.  Many caricatures have been drawn of a Jewish man with a hook nose in anti-Semitic articles.  The reasoning is that non-Jews had made a distinction between the "perfect" white Aryan and the Semitic language-groups.  This started in the 18th century which gave rise to the unsound theory of Aryan and Semitic "races."  That led to the majority non-Jews to see different characteristics to Aryans and Semites.  The Aryans were the Teutonic peoples and were made out to be the elite of humanity and Jews were its antithesis.  This view became popular in Germany and thus led to the Holocaust where 6 million Jews were slaughtered and said to be inferior people.  Jews have been the scapegoats of humanity for about 4,000 years, suffering from Greeks, Romans and then the  Europeans throughout the ages and on into the USA.  One characteristic that shows up is our stubbornness to adhere to our religion.  Among one of the oldest people on earth as a people, Jews are still alive, and are being studied for their dna.  We find almost half of us are descended from Aaron, brother of Moses  as they have the Cohen haplogroup gene, J1 and J2.   I wonder what haplogroups we lost in the Holocaust  that almost wiped out all the Ashkenazi Jews and many of North Africa where the Nazis had taken over.

The population of Israel is 8,012,400 people from all four corners of the earth as of March 31, 2013.  6,037,700 of them are Jewish, or 75.4%.  The state of Israel was created for Jews, so this is a comfortable majority.   1,656,600 are Arabs or 20.6%.  318,100 are listed as others which makes up 4%.
  Update: 5/7/14 now at 8.18 million with an increase from last year of 137,500.
  Update: 5/31/16:  Population is now 8.522 million citizens, 10 times more than at its founding in 1948.

Out of the Jewish population,  there were 2,921,000 Mizrachim and Sephardim living in Israel.  That was 50.2% of the Jewish population. One million of them are Moroccan Jews which is 15% of the population of Israel.  Some are found to have come to Morocco fleeing the Spanish Inquisition.(Update 3/15/14)    Ashkenazim population numbered 2,767,000 or 47.5% of the Jewish population.  Jews have been scattered all over the world and are now going back to Israel. Some of the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel are being found once again after being forcefully taken away as slaves or resettled in distant lands by the Assyrians in 721 BCE. Ethiopian Jews make up 1% of the population.   Other people were brought in that the Assyrians didn't want.

  Mizrachim  are Jews that came from North Africa and the Middle East.  Sometimes they are included in the Sephardim Jews who are Jews from Spain, Portugal, North Africa and the Middle East.   40 % of the Sephardim Jews belong to haplogroup J1, the Cohen gene.   The other high haplogroups are E1b1b (now called E-L117) , E1b1a,  R1b1a2, and I .  Arabs have also been found with haplogroup  J1, specifically J1c3d or P58- (L147.1-L858/L859) an Arab branch of the Cohen gene. We may have parted company with this group about 4,000 years ago with Ishmael and Isaac as their father, Abraham lived at the beginning of the 2nd millennium.  .

We can also say that 35-43% of all Jewish men belong to the J haplogroup and its sub haplogroups.  15 to 30% of all Jewish men belong to E1b1b (E-M35.).  The non-Jewish DNA in both groups are generally from southern Europeans, meaning the Greeks.  5% to 8% of Ashkenazim also have a European contribution to their DNA such as Haplogroup R1b.  This could be be a Khazarian element.  The Sepharim's DNA is very close to the Kurds, Turks and Armenians more that it is to the Arabs.

Half of today's Kohanim (Jews knowing that they are Cohens in the synagogue) have the haplogroup of J1c3 or (J-P58). The Cohen I know personally is J1  (M267) and matches with J1c3d (L147.1) and J1c3-P58.   15% of the Kohanim today have the haplogroup of J2a (J-M410).  This line goes back a good 3,200 years to 4,200 years ago to Aaron, brother of Moses or his descendants who would have the same Ydna haplogroup but would have had time to pick up a few mutations.  .
                                                                           
Ashkenazim share the same DNA with Jewish and Middle East groups but  not as a rule so much with their non-Jewish population.  It was not common for them to "mix in."  In about the 8th century CE,  the Kingdom of Khazaria, which was south of Russia in the lower Volga region decided to convert to Judaism and the royal house did so. The descendants of the Jewish converts may be of the R1b haplogroup, which is a European marker.   Others of the kingdom were free to choose their own religion if they wished.  70% to 82% of all the  Jews share the the same DNA with Arabs.  The last few thousand years show they have been sharing from the same chromosome pool.  5% of Jews today have Q1b1a haplogroup, which is my father's line.  They have the distinction of belonging to a line that stemmed from Mongolia, Siberia and parts of Turkey about 15,00 to 20,000 years ago and share their Q lineage with many Native Americans.  It could be that they worked their way from Siberia to the Middle East by the year 4,000 BCE in 10,000 years.

"The current Cohens descended from a small number of paternal ancestors. In the summary of their findings the authors concluded that " Our estimates of the coalescence time also lend support to the hypothesis that the extended CMH represents a unique founding lineage of the ancient Hebrews that has been paternally inherited along with the Jewish priesthood."

Do Jews belong in Israel?  Yes, we were Jews, and now Jews have returned and are still  returning.  After 400 years of living as slaves in Egypt, Jews did not remain as the 70 members of Jacob's  and Joseph's family members.  They should have been of the haplogroup of J1 or J2 as this line is traced back to Noah.  All 12 sons of Jacob should carry this J1 haplogroup.  What has happened is that sometimes a family group would only produce daughters.   By the time they were on the Exodus and listened to Moses read the Ten Commandments to them, they were a slightly mixed group of former slaves.  At that time they became the Israelites, as Jacob's name was changed to Israel.  They were no longer a family group or a clan anymore, but a nation.  Wars, disease, weather conditions, starvation periods all played a part in mixing the Jewish family members with a few other haplogroups.  Their husbands that they found among the slaves or Jewish population in their village would have to take over as heads of the family group, and may have come from a different haplogroup. With all the times of being carted away as slaves and moving here and there through force or necessity, family trees were lost.

While the old joke telling of 2 Jews stranded on a small island that decide to each build their own synagogue and a 3rd which neither one would enter, showing their individuality and stubbornness, Dr. Eran Elhaik, a molecular geneticist of Israel disagrees with most of the population geneticists  that I agree with.  He thinks Ashkenazis all came from Khazaria, siding with an old theory of Arthur Koestler, author of the Thirteenth Tribe, which was before the days of DNA.  I say that no doubt people in Poland, Lithuania and Latvia most likely carry some evidence from Khazaria, the haplogroup of Q1b1a  has not been established at all as having originated from there.  Khazaria had become a refuge for many Jews of that period who were being victimized, and it was a safe haven for them.  They came from many different routes.  It was also on the silk road so would have been a good rest stop.

As for the  theorists who think the Aryans were so classy, I have another thought for them.  Look at Israel.  See what it has produced from its former descendants of slaves.  We came from an empire and famous kings such as David and Solomon.  We can hold our heads high among the nations.  Israel is the 2nd highest start up nation in the world, pretty outstanding for such a teeny state.  It has the largest % of Nobel prize winners. It creates medical inventions that are outstanding and are helping everyone in the world.  We have produced outstanding musicians. Is it the environment we came from or our DNA?  Whatever,  we are still here; survivors.  Am Israel Chai.  The Israeli people live.

Update: 5/7/14 http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=17241.  This tells us that population today stands at 8.18 million.  The population has increased by 137,500 since last year on Independence Day.  Jews make up 75% of Israel's population.

Update: 1/14/15:  January 2015 population is now 8,296,000 residents which is a 2% increase from 2014.  In 2014 the population grew by 162,000.  Now, 6,218,000 or 74.9% are Jews, and 1,719,000 or 20.7% are Arabs and 359,000 or 4.22% are other-Christians, etc.

2014 had a 32% rise in immigration over 2013 of about 20,000 immigrants.  In 2014, France had the most immigration to Israel with nearly 7,000.  In 2013 3,400 made aliyah.  France has the largest Jewish population and has been plagued by much anti-Semitism.  Also, there was 190% increase to immigration from Ukraine.  5,840 made aliyah compared to 2,020 in 2013.  This was a result of ongoing political instability in Ukraine related to tensions between the Ukrainian government and Russia.  In 2014 from North America were 3,870 who made aliyah or about 3,470 from USA and 400 from Canada.  In 2013 3,600 made aliyah.  (The Jewish Press 1/9/2015 from JNS).

Update: 1/6/17:  Camera just came out with these facts:  The Jewish population of Judea and Samaria has increased from 275,000 at the end of 2008 to 377,000 at the end of 2015 according to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics.    Also, Jews living in  eastern Jerusalem in 1946 had been expelled by the Arabs of Jordan.  Then they had attacked 58 of the synagogues and either desecrated or destroyed them.  Finally, the Muslims took over the empty homes left by the Jews.  By 1967, only Palestinians were living in this part of Jerusalem for that reason.  Jews could not live there as this and Judea and Samaria had been taken over by the Arabs.  It wasn't until Israel won against the huge attack of 5 armies in the Six Day War of 1967 that they could again settle in these areas.

Resource:  http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm (Judaism 101).
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/israel/Contemporary_Life/Society_and_Religious_Issues/Ashkenazic-Sephardic_Ethnic_Division.shtml
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Theology/Who_is_a_Jew/Types_of_Jews/Ethnic_Diversity.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron
The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia (anti-Semitism)
Kike! by Selzer (anti-Semitism)
http://forward.com/articles/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/?p=all
http://hugr.huji.ac.il/AshkenaziJews.aspx  added 11/1/13
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Chosen-Genes/131481/ added 11/1/13
update: 3/15/14 http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/12290/genetic-mutation-affects-moroccan-jews-discovered/

158 comments:

  1. Jews have been the scapegoats of humanity for about 4,000 years, suffering from Greeks, Romans and then the Europeans throughout the ages and on into the USA

    If Jews have been "scapegoats" in so many different places across such a long period of time then maybe they were doing some things that made them justifiably hated?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes it's true ...
      2000 years ago .. the Jews suffered from the Romans, so many of them went to the home of the Arab tribes in the desert .. they were received.

      600 years ago the Jews suffered from the Spanish, so he went to the home of the Arabs on the coast of North Africa and the Middle East .. they were received.

      80 years ago .. Jews suffered by German in the Holocaust ... but this time .. Jews did not resort to the Arabs again .. No..
      this time Jews expelled The Arabs from their villages in Palestine and set up their own state they called "Israel" ...
      well .. if the Jewish state established in a part of the territory of Germany, we would say maybe that is a part of the compensation for Jews from the Holocaust.. why??
      and sorry for my broken English !

      Delete
    2. Jonon, you're leaving out some important historical facts here.First, Jews did not expel the Arabs from their villages in Palestine. When Israel announced that Israel was created on May 14, 1948-the date the 30 year mandate was up being held by the British, their becoming a state was already cleared through the League of Nations in the 1920's, and then cleared again with the United Nations for this date in 1948. However, the leaders of the Arabs attacked within minutes and told the Arabs to leave their homes as they were commencing to attack, and that within hours they could return and take over the Jewish homes as they would win....The didn't win, even though they had been shooting at Jews since November 29, 1947 when the UN created a partition resolution. In April 1948, before the May announcement, units of Arab irregulars came to attack from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt to reinforce local Arabs in their attacks on Jewish town and they even tried to block the main roads. So on the 14th of May, Israel was immediately invaded by the regular armies of Egypt, Transjordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon and Saudi Arabians who sent a contingent. They tried to exterminate the Jews. They planned on massacring everyone-their words, spoken by Azzam Pasha of the Arab League. This attack on Israel went on into 1949, and of course the Arab leaders told the Arabs who had left their homes to stay in refugee camps where they are today. Those that didn't leave became citizens of Israel along with the Jews. There are not over 1.7 million Arab Israelis. So don't believe propaganda such as what is being cranked out. Use some real history books or ask me if you'd like. I keep 3 blogs going with lots of historical information. The other 2 are http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com and http://israel-nadene.blogspot.com. I'm a retired teacher who has lived in Israel for over 5 years teaching in the junior high in Safed which is in the northern Galilee. Jonon, we are not bad people.

      Delete
    3. The establishment of the first Jewish settlement in Palestine at the hands of the British Jewish Montefiore in 1837 year, and its population was at that time in 1500 a Jew, and increased the number of immigrants to ten thousand Jews in 1840 and 15 thousand in 1860 and then 22 thousand Jews in 1881. In 1882 regiments Russian immigrants began arriving to Palestine, despite the issuance of the Ottoman authorities law limits the amount of immigration and the number of the first batch two thousand Jews and that number has risen to up to 25 thousand Jews in 1903.

      Second Immigration:  1904-1918m
      this migration occurred after the establishment of the Zionist movement, and the number of immigrants in which about 40 thousand came mostly from Russia and Romania and were mainly from young adventurers who recruited Zionism devices. By the end of the second wave of immigration and because of the outbreak of the First World War in 1914 the number of Jews in Palestine reached about 85 thousand Jews and reached land they own to 418 thousand acres and about 44 agricultural colony.

      3rd :
      With the departure of the Ottomans and the beginning of the British Mandate over Palestine in 1924 it reached the influx of immigrants Zionists peak in 1925, reaching their number to about 33 thousand compared to 13 thousand in 1924.
      In 1933   Britain issued a White Paper which sets out Jewish immigration to 75 thousand over the next five years

      In the years of World War II he arrived in Palestine about 55 thousand migrants illegally, where he was in charge of the British fleet under the guidance of Jewish immigrants ships and supplying them with water and fuel, catering and leadership to the Palestinian coast. Besides that entered the country of the Jews between 1940 and 1948 about 120 thousand Jews.
      With the end of the British Mandate period, the number of Jews has reached 625 thousand or approximately (one-third) of the population in the country.

      Issued in 1950, "Law of Return", which states that "every Jew has the right to return to the country of return as a Jew", and be immigrant immigration visa. Israeli citizenship law was issued in 1952, which provides for giving the right of every Jew immigrating to Israel to obtain Israeli identity as soon as he entered the country. In addition to encouraging the Jewish Agency for Migration and organization and attention to matters of immigrants upon their arrival in the country, which helped to increase Jewish immigration to Palestine.

      Funny that genetic research indicated that only 8-9% of the Jews in the world today belong to the gene (c) .. and the rest from other nations.

      What their relationship to this land?

      Anyway, I am one of those who claim to one-state solution that brings together Palestinians and Jewish immigrants... (Cousins Jews & Non cousins)

      Delete
    4. Jonon, you do understand that Israel was created as the Homeland of the Jewish people because this is where they came from, led by Moses and then Joshua into the land of Canaan almost 4,000 years ago. We started as the children from Abraham just like Arabs did, from Ishmael and Isaac. That's to answer your question of what was their relationship to this land. Jews were told by G-d to live there, so that's where they went after living as slaves for about 400 years in Egypt.
      The Law of return (aliyah) of 1950 gave legal sanction to all immigrant Jews. It was after much work and meeting with the British who held the mandate over the land after World War I that they were given the right by the League of Nations, and later the United Nations to live there again. Arabas and Druzes of Israeli birth are full citizens of the State, and as in other countries, any person satisfying the statutory conditions may be naturalized.
      Israel took in 1,400,000 immigrants in 24 years.Nearly 700,000 immigrants---almost half the total---came as destitute refugees from Moslem countries. The number matches that of the Palestinian Arabs who became refugees in May 1948.
      Israel started in 1948 with 650,000 and grew to 3,164,000 in May 1972.
      I don't know anything about gene C. If you're writing about the Y haplogroup C (male line), this is found throughout mainland Asia, the South Pacific and at low frequency in Native American populations. It originated in southern Asia and spread in all diretions. This lineage colonized New guinea, Australia, and northern Asia, and currently is found with its highest diversity in populations of India.
      Almost half of the male Jewish population belong to J1, more likely J1c3d which many Arabs also carry with some different details.
      A one state solution would bring about more likely a power struggle as to how to maintain Israel as a Jewish state. Remember, it is the ONLY Jewish state in the world, and there are 48 Muslim majority states in the world without a Palestine. Seems to me that a Muslim has many other choices to live. Look at Jordan. a good 50% of its population are Palestinians. The only problem with moving there and being under Jordanian law is that he doesn't want any more Palestinians moving there as citizens. He wants peace, too!

      Delete
    5. Many Europeans don't believe in the legitimate state of Israel because Anti-semitism is still very pronounced in Europe. Many in Europe also no longer attend church, so they can't very well believe in the Bible. Both of those facts inhibit their understanding of the establishment of Israel and any aliyah.

      Delete
    6. You're right, Unknown. That's why I write; trying to educate people and show that their reason for anti-Semitism is unfounded. Education is the best answer to all this, I think. What can I say if they are still hateful after knowing facts and not propaganda or family's prejudice handed down.

      Delete
    7. No I do not think the Jewish people ever did anything that justified hate! What I think it is certain groups of people refused to take responsibility for their own problems in life. Christians should never consider that we are the replacement we should consider the Jewish people our brothers and sisters our bible came from the five books of Moses. People really need to look for the how we are the same and not on how we are different.

      Delete
  2. I wondered that myself and I'm Jewish. What we did was to be accused of killing Jesus, or having been accused of causing his death by the Romans. For that, we haven't been found innocent by others and have been treated this way through the generations. It was a fairly recent Pope who has exonerated Jews, but it hasn't made any difference.Now Christians have a replacement theory saying that they have replaced Jews. Anti-Semitism still continues. Besides this, there is a lot of jealousy of our accomplishments which cause hateful feelings towards us. How can anyone so bad be so gifted? Another choice shot at us is the "chosen" theory. Religiously speaking, yes, we were the chosen ones, but Gentiles do not understand the meaning. It means we are chosen to have more of a burden or responsibility to lead the way, to show-which was through the 10 Commandments, etc. Now we're only about 0.02% of the world population. We've been blamed from A to Z of whatever is wrong with the world. Enough already!
    Nadene

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent comment Nadene... thank you, I hope someday they understand the burden we carry for the people of the world!

      Delete
  3. Excellent article: http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm, a little old being Jews in Israel have grown from 4.7million to 6.0 million with 14 million total in world population. Notice that 48% of Ashkenazi Cohens and 58% of Sephardi carry Y haplogroup J1. Thank you Stephen. I have a feeling that the reason Ashkenazi Cohens are found in lower % is that they have gone through many attacks and have suffered from so much killing in pogroms, etc. It's been a harder life. When a synagogue or group of 10 men lost their Cohen, they would probably give the title to another person so that they could carry on. The Cohen is the first to read from the Torah when a congregation meets on a Saturday morning. Somebody had to be first.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nadene, I just recently found out I am a J1b. I have Ashkenazi, middle eastern, north African, and African dna. I always thought I was just Hispanic :D My family is your typical Spaniard migrated to Mexico family, now I see this origin and I want to know more.

      Delete
  4. Yes, I thought as much. I've been debating this question on an "anthro-forum". My main reasons for suspecting that the Khazar hypothesis was incorrect were that no Turkic-Jewish group (eg Krymchaks) have Haplogroup Q and the fact it does exist amoung Assyrians (and rarely in Sephardi Jews) groups that were in the Near East in ancient times.

    I had previously read on a website called "Davidic legacy" that the Rubinstein's were descendents of David and Rashi and so the genetic test results threw me a lot. My family are very "levantine looking" also. It confirms my earlier findings which seem to hint at an earlier introduction of the Q haplogroup into the Jewish population. It seems that some steppe group, Scythians perhaps, entered the Persian empire and from their made it to Assyria and to Israel. This is consistant with both the Biblical narrative (eg Persian and Assyrian take-over of Israel) as well as with Q1b existing both amongst the Assyrians, an ethnoreligious, and importantly endogamous, group group around Iraq and also with the Q1b's found around Afghanistan/Pakistan.
    From Paul Rubenstein

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thank you for your work, and contributuons Nadine. Well done.
    As for you, "average joe" (with the comment that perhaps Jews deserved persecution), get a grip and a clue. The secular world hates God and those of us who worship Him. Always have always will. Those "Christians" throughout history that assisted in Jewish persecution were nominal Christians only, not true followers. A true Christian cannot deny that Jesus is Jewish--therefore so is Christianity. :)

    ReplyDelete
  6. I am J1c3 / P58, I am a Christian looking for my Jewish roots. I agree with vayorem, "A true Christian cannot deny that Jesus is Jewish--therefore so is Christianity. :)", and I find Nadene's comments very interesting. My DNA is not exactly CMH but falls within the guidelines. I am in various Jewish projects as well as Arab projects. Arab projects cannot connect me with any Arab tribes but the Jewish projects do. DNA is still in it's infancy and seems to still be a guessing game for many. But I have faith... "Am Israel Chai!"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The main thing from our philosophical point of view is whether or not people behave correctly, from the viewpoint of the Hebrew bible. Seven main areas of legal concepts, but they involve respecting and refraining from blashphemy of the Names of God, refraining from idolatry, not eating a limb from a living animal, not mudering, not stealing, not committing sexual sins like adultery and sodomy, and avoiding many common behaviors found in certain corners of the world today. These are called the 7 laws of Noah, and you can google and find more and better information on them. When modern nations go wrong is when they sanction marriage of same gender, when they allow abortions on demand, and not merely to save the life of the mother, when they allow governments to oppress their publics with oppressive laws and taxes, and offer nothing in return. DNA is only interesting from the point of view of personal history. It is when we behave morally and according to biblical principles that we are honoring the Name of God in this world and we become worthy (we hope) to be rewarded in the next world. The hereafter is forever as our souls can never die, with the mercy of Heaven.

      Delete
    2. A French man can be J1 & J2 subclades,G whatever ! T, Q R1b R1a I1 I2a2 and subclades, E1..subcl, N1c (rare latvian Estonian ) Saami West Siberia and East Asia ...AND IS A FRENCHMAN.....
      Why then, the Jews like me: 99,9% Pure European Stock and 0,1% Yakut (!) and 86% ashkenazim cousins Clusterings of these european old stocks, NOT BE Israeli? or French...?
      Invaders J1 of a J1 dominant Country have NO RIGHTS on That Country! For example: Arabs On Yemenites....! and reverse !
      "Bad Faith" is the worse human defect one cannot fight against without mostly killing the bad guy!!!! Pity...but a Fact. Nazis BELIEVED in their fancies and wanted even to die for them! They courage was a result of that Bad Faith (or False Conscience..)

      Delete
  7. John, hope you are doing a good job with tracing your genealogy. One website that is free is http://jewishgen.org. There's a lot of ways of searching on there. Yes, it's interesting that your have the J1c3/P58. You should get the familytinder test with familytreedna or get tested with 23&me and you can see who is matching your chromosomes and how much of segments are matching up. Then have that transferred to gedmatch.com and find people who match up with your chromosomes, and will really tell you the group you are matching up with. These are autosomal dna tests. Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is an interesting article... I've been scouring the web to see what I can find about my DNA and came across this. I am Y DNA haplogroup J2a4 (I am quite positive I'm J2a4h2a, but still need SNP test to confirm the haplogroup). I decided to do DNA testing because nobody in my family knew anything about my Dad's side of the family beyond the name of my great grandfather.... Even on Ancestry.com I could not get very far because my G-G-G Grandfather died when his son was only 1 year old, and he himself was very young. There are no records beyond that.... Anywhow, I was raised Seventh Day Adventist, and kept the Shabbat, ate Kosher, and followed much of the Torah, but did not observe the festivals. Now I have been observing all applicable Torah for four years, and just a few weeks ago learned about my DNA. This is very interesting!

      Delete
  8. Josh, It is amazing! They say there are no accidents. Glad my article was helpful.

    ReplyDelete
  9. the Jews in Israel now are not are not the decedent of Ibrahim . They dont belong to the haplogroup J1c3 as I do .. My haplogroup is J1c3d2 . The bible tells you that the holy land is only for the decendent of Ibrahim . excuse me sir . Have you ever tested the DNA of your the rulers ? Sharon or Shimon Perez ? .. I dont think that Askanazi Jews are the decendent of Ibrahim .. The belong to haplogroup R1a1a ot R1b ....

    So , make a DNA test to all your people and any one who does not belong to the haplogroup J1c3 kick him from Israel as your bible tells you ..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hassan you are wrong I am a Ashkenazi Cohen and j1c3

      Delete
    2. Thanks, Matt. There's a lot of evidence here to prove Hassan needs to re-read some history. Your comment is one of them. Even my Hashemite Royal friend knows Jews and Arabs are descendants of Abraham. That he doesn't argue with.

      Delete
    3. Hassan, Jews accept converts, so we have DNA from those people as well. It is not as you say. We decide who is Jewish, just as you decide who is a Muslim. But Jews are more than a religion, we are a nation and a people. We therefore contain much genetic material in common with the Arab nation, since we had common ancestors.

      Delete
    4. I'll keep it short
      I posted a response and for some reason it didn't show
      Just few decades ago the Jewish people were claiming to be a race and now after the recent advancements in science you are a nation or a culture and the concept of a culture is elastic; you know more than me that it's very difficult to convert and it takes few generations to be considered as a Jewish person or family unless it was easy in the past and got difficult nowadays.
      dear matt the Abramic race and descendants share the genetic signature of J1c3d which is the majority in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Palastine and some of the Cohen. So the majority of jwish population are not from the seed of Isaac son of Abram and I leave it to you to know what that means.
      So if I went to a synagogue with my J1c3d blood would I be accepted as a Jew or it's a process that might take a life time and what if with J2 or R or T came would the process differ

      Delete
    5. I'll keep it short
      I posted a response and for some reason it didn't show
      Just few decades ago the Jewish people were claiming to be a race and now after the recent advancements in science you are a nation or a culture and the concept of a culture is elastic; you know more than me that it's very difficult to convert and it takes few generations to be considered as a Jewish person or family unless it was easy in the past and got difficult nowadays.
      dear matt the Abramic race and descendants share the genetic signature of J1c3d which is the majority in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Palastine and some of the Cohen. So the majority of jwish population are not from the seed of Isaac son of Abram and I leave it to you to know what that means.
      So if I went to a synagogue with my J1c3d blood would I be accepted as a Jew or it's a process that might take a life time and what if with J2 or R or T came would the process differ

      Delete
    6. Aziz, so now you have it listed twice. You just didn't see it the first time. It wasn't Jews who claimed to be a race a few decades ago, it was the Nazis. They had been very racially minded and thought we were a subhuman race-thus they had decided to kill us all off. No, we can't claim to be a race because though our monotheism started from Abraham and he spread it throughout his family, by the time the family produced Moses, the 600,000 slaves of the Exodus left with other slaves as well. We have intermarried-usually the men finding women in a new land doing it first. Now we are a people and had our own language-Yiddish or Ladino. Now the Dear Matt section. Are you writing a reply to Matt here? There is no Abramic race, but Ishmael (father of Arabs) and Isaac( father of Jews) did come from him. Yes, they would have shared J1c3d and is found in many Arabs showing that our written history of the Torah is correct. In Judaism, Aaron, Moses's brother, was chosen to be the first priest, or Cohen, and it was a heriditary position. Thus, all Cohens would be carrying this haplogroup. I have a Cohen friend of the synagogue who is just that. No, you wouldn't be accepted as a Jew just by walking into a synagogue with your certificate of your haplogroup. It takes more than that to be Jewish. You would need to convert to Judaism just like any other religion would expect. For us, that means studying, just like Catholics do, in study-groups and alone, and then instead of being baptized, going to the mikvah and being dunked completely in a special pool. It takes a year or 2, depending on how fast you study. If you are really serious, I suggest doing it with the Chabad group of Jews-orthodox whose job it is to teach. My mother did it. Sometimes I think converted Jews are better Jews than those naturally born-it's cause they really wanted to be Jewish. Hope you find it this time.

      Delete
  10. After all I wrote you still deny that Abraham had a son that was born of Hagar and Abraham and a son that was born of Sarah and Abraham? We have Jews today who are the Cohens in the synagogue with the haplogroup of J1c3d just like some Muslim Arabs such as you, only both show they are on their own branches. It doesn't matter if ALL Jews are J1 because they are the special ones who were picked to be the Cohens and had special duties to perform. Jews are people who follow the Mosaic Law of Moses and they were all in Israel and Judah for a very long time. They are the descendants of Abraham. You may not like it or think it but that is the case. And as that goes, Jews have had more tests than any other people. Shall we kick out all the 1.7 million Arab citizens of Israel while we're at it? They're not all J1's either.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shabbat Shalom Nadene,

      I discern that you have a sincere heart, and have a thirst for knowledge and I think, the truth. Actually, Hassan is correct, the current Jews who occupy Israel today and have been since 1948 are not from the Original Hebrew Israelites. The Original inhabitants of Israel were basically cursed, kicked out of their homeland by GOD because they refused to follow his laws, statutes and commandments. Cursed to go back into slavery by way OF SHIPS (Deuteronomy 28:68). That prophecy does not fit the present Jews in Israel, nor have any of their children been sold into slavery either (Deuteronomy 28:41) The truth is, the only group of people who fits those prophecies are the Negro or so-called "African American" of North America. You were absolutely correct, The E Y-DNA Haplogroup IS a Middle Eastern One, but the E1B1A took a MASS EXODUS from Israel once they were deported by the Assyrians and scattered all over the world, mostly in West Africa, The west Indies, Caribbean, etc.... But The original Hebrew Israelites were black and a Negroid people, in this there is no doubt, and now because of DNA, the truth is finally coming to light. The Igbo and Yoruba Jews (who majority of Negros in America have descended from, have already been recognized as one of the Lost Tribes of Israel by a lot of well established Jewish Organizations(and lines up with The Bible identifying them as Hebrews, as well as The African Lemba who possess the Cohen Modal Haplotype in it's highest concentration on this earth. 2 Huge Lies were told to the descendants of Negros brought over to North America via The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade:

      1. That Negroes were from the Bloodline of Ham (total lie)
      2. And that they were African

      "Ham: The youngest son of Noah, born probably about
      96 years before the Flood; and one of eight persons
      to live through the Flood. He became the progenitor of
      the dark races; NOT THE NEGROES, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites."- Zondervan Bible Dictionary (Reference)

      Also,

      The late president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser, stated on television, "you (the Jews) will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here BLACK but came back white.”

      I submit this post in truth, humbleness and all sincerity.

      Shabbat Salom

      Yoshua ben Ephraim

      Delete
    2. Torah and was called a Gingi, red headed in English. Using Nasser as a reference is not the same as using a PhD in genetics, you know. What did he know? Please! I haven't checked out your reference about where heavy populations of E1b1a are found, but I do know that a cousin of mine married a Jewish Ashkenazi with E1b1a, and he is very white. Yes, I know about the Lemba, and that is explained very easily with Jewish merchants or explorers going into Africa and settling there, marrying in with the tribal women. Jewish men did things like that when they didn't go into the unknown with their women. No doubt they were like me, easily getting lost and not being able to backtrack, so there they were, and Lemba were born with the Cohen gene. I figure that from Abraham's time till today, there have been 160 generations, being each generation is worth 25 years. I figured that 100 years =4 generations, so 1000 years would=40 generations. 4000 years=160 generations. This shows that there has been added in each generation, the dna of the female, and there has been a lot of mixing of genes in our present generation, but it's still showing up in our genes. Another thing, most Jews are finding that they have married a distant relative today if a Russian Jew marries a Russian Jew or an Egyptian Jew marries an Egyptian Jew., etc, etc. Perfect example is in my own family. My father married a non-Jew, so I have 1/2 the genes of Jews, but my paternal 1st cousin shows up with double the amount of cMs (a length of dna) that my brother or I have when I compare matches. We discovered that her father's line was connected to her mother's line about 5 generations back. There is no problem with the Cohen gene, as Ishmael and Isaac were sons of Abraham who had the gene, J1c3d, so both lines, Arab and Jew, have carried this. It was Aaron, who was chosen by Moses, his brother, to be the priest or Cohen for the people and this was a post that was inherited, so all further Jewish Cohens came from him and served in synagogues later on. Yes, I know that the King of Jordan is also a J1c3d. There is, nowever, a tag on the naming of this for Arabs that is different from Jews, so scientists can tell which is which. As for Deuteronomy 28, you are correct about MOses giving the people a chilling prophecy of the horrors that would befall them if they spurned G-d and the Torah. He said all this just before his own death. #28-68 did say that Hashem will return you to Egypt in ships, on the road of which I said to you, "You shall never again see it! And there you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as slaves and maidservants-but there will be no buyer!" These were words of the covenant and there was much more that he said previously. This sealed the covenant with the children of Israel which he said in in Moab along with words spoken before in Horeb. They all had survived for 40 years miraculously and they had to start a conquest after this. The people had to fully appreciate the awesome degree of gratitude and allegiance they owed to G-d. As for Ham, he was father of Cush (Nubia and Ethiopia), Put (Libya and Morocco), Mizraim (Egypt), and Canaan (Syria and Palestine). In philology, the languages of Africa south of Egypt which are related to Semitic are called Hamitic. Jews did invade Canaan, but they also mixed (married) some of the survivors after the invasion. All the Canaanites were not killed.

      Delete
    3. The first part didn't print, Yoshua, so I started with: I do believe you are sincere in what you write, Yoshua, but I don't agree with all that you say. Have you taken the autosomal DNA test yet, besides a haplogroup test? I'm Ashkenazi with a father who is Q1b1a of which 5% of Jews belong to. There is not a trace of Black dna in my genes. According to your thinking, all Jews should be showing this. I even have 2.9% of something from Neanderthal as tested in another autosomal test from 23&Me. If tests are going back that far, why aren't they showing black genes? A certain amount of cMs of certain chromosomes of mine are matching with other Jews who trace back to the Rhineland, which is Germany, in Worms to be exact, to the Rabbi of Worms who was related to RASHI whose oral history, as with many others, traces back to King David. King David's description is in the Torah. Reference about Ham is from The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia

      Delete
    4. Nadene,

      It is not my intent nor in my heart to debate with you in any way, my heart is pure in that I only want the truth to be revealed.You don't have to "defend" anything to me. trust. I am completely and totally enlightened to who the Ashkenazi Jews are by history, scripture and DNA. Scripture reveals who Negros in America are. No other group on the planet fits every single one of the prophecies in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc but them...There were a mass Exodus of the E1B1A Haplogroup from Israel, starting first with the Assyrian deportation in about 722 BC, yet the nation still survived, however when Titus and The Romans totally decimated Jerusalem and destroyed the 2nd Temple, The Hebrews that weren't killed were captured, taken into slavery and deported. Flavius Josephus in his works, who was an eye witness to this account said specifically:

      "Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done)"

      The E1B1A literally ceased to exist in Israel after the slaughter and capture of the Original Inhabitants in 70 A.D. The late Egyptian President obviously knew the history and knowledge of this unspoken atrocity and "forgotten chapter" Hebrew History, as do many others. Where did they go after that? The E1B1A and ALL of it's sub-groups ended in Northern Africa and mostly Western Africa (where majority of them reside to this day) There's a whole bunch of history being made and discussed that you aren't aware of. For example, research the Igbo Jews and The Yoruba Jews, who both have proven by oral history, artifacts and DNA that they are from one of The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, Ephraim and Gad to be specific, and have been QUIETLY trying to get rights to go back to their true homeland of Israel. I think you're confusing what I'm saying, if you're trying to imply that because you aren't "black" there's no way what I'm saying is factual, you're misunderstanding what I'm representing. The Original Hebrew Israelites were a Negroid people. The African Lemba proves that more than any group on the face of the earth. If they carry the Cohen Modal Haplotype, and science has already went on record as saying that no other group on the planet has a higher concentration of this Haplotype than them, that tells us they are descended from Aaron, brother of Moses, Tribe of Levi and Aaron and Moses were Negroes too. I'm sure you've seen what The African Lemba look like right? Well, there's no way Aaron, Moses and the other Hebrews didn't look like The African Lemba, that defies logic and DNA does not back that hypothesis either, and simply just doesn't make sense. It's o.k. if you don't agree, every single thing I wrote can be researched and verified. As I said, my heart is pure and my only passion is for THE MOST HIGH and the truth. You and I aren't from the same seed/Bloodline; Ashkenazi Jews are from the bloodline of Japheth by way of Gomer and Magog. I am from the Bloodline of Shem as backed by my DNA, so you and me or rather yours and my people are not going to share genetic data, we're from two totally different bloodlines.

      Yoshua ben Ephraim

      Delete
    5. Part 2 of response post:

      as I've said from the start, I mean you no ill will and my heart is sincere. My passion is for the truth. If you haven't read it, I highly suggest you read a book by one of your brothers Schlomo Sand, entitled "Invention of The Jewish People" it was # 1 in Israel for a very long time. He doesn't go into this exactly as I am, but much of what I've said he gives credence to in this book. The Ashkenazi Jews moved into Israel in 1948 (they weren't there already as were The Palestinians), when then President Harry S. Truman signed the Legislature recognizing it as a state. When the Original Black Hebrews were decimated, killed, captured and enslaved and scattered?, so many other "strangers" have occupied the land since (including your people), and guess what? This was prophesied by THE MOST HIGH:

      Leviticus 26:32-33

      And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.

      And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

      That's exactly what happened and Blacks have been catching and going through hell ever since! Sad really, on so many levels, cause majority of them don't even know this information. You take care and as I've said, it's not hard to verify anything I have written. Lies are not profitable for me, I stand on the truth. I'm just so glad that Genetics/DNA is finally revealing what's been kept hidden and out of history for so long. I do think you're a good at heart person, thank you and God bless you for the correspondence and on your continued journey, may you be lead by THE MOST HIGH. Shalom

      Yoshua ben Ephraim





      Delete
    6. Yoshua, I've written this article to tell of the demographics of who lives in Israel, not as a format for arguing the merits of Jews being here. I've done enough of that in many many articles on this blog and 2 others. Your reference of Leviticus from 26 :14 to 43 lists horrendous punishments meant not as revenge, but to influence people to repent, and for that reason they are inflicted in stages of increasing severity. If the 1st stage comes and Israel doesn't learn the desired lesson, the next and more severe stage of punishment will happen to them until repentance and G-d's mercy finally comes.
      I'm after the truth, too, and your facts are wrong. Ashkenazis came in the 1880's, not in 1948. Palestinians? Jews were also called Palestinians until May 14, 1948 when Israel was declared a state. The Arabs came in following the Ashkenazis looking for work as the Jews were building. You are also wrong again in that there were Jews living in Jerusalem and throughout Eretz Yisrael that had never left in 70 CE but had remained. They were able to hide and not be found by the Romans. Do me a favor and read "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters who is a Christian. So what are you, Yoshua ben Ephraim? Why are you backing the Palestinian Arabs at this point? This is not a complete question; "When the Original Black Hebrews were decimated, killed, captured and enslaved and scattered? You're still saying that the Israelites on the Exodus with Moses were Black? DNA does not back you up at all. Remember the truth? You can't argue with science. My people are not strangers to the land. They are the original people; the Mitzraim, Sephardi and Ashkenazi are my people. .

      Delete
    7. Another thing, Yoshua, Abraham, father of our people and of the Arabs, came from the east with his people and his father, Terah. The east was not Africa but probably somewhere as far as the Euphrates. Those people were not black. Just because the Lemba in Africa have been found with the Cohen gene of J1c3d does not mean they were the first of the Israelites. If you read the old Testament and start with Genesis 11: , try reading it from the Stone Edition of the ArtScroll series that is found in Israel. The genealogy is given right there.

      Delete
    8. Yoshua, You stated "Scripture reveals who Negros in America are. Today you can get your DNA tested and find out not only what % of your DNA is Negro but from what areas in Africa the genes came from. Ophra Winfrey was one of the first to get a test. Blacks found out that many also carried genes from whites in the USA, most likely slave owners. As Jews and Arabs who carry J1c3d have more information on their origins than this tag, science can tell them if they came from Jewish or Arab origins, which would be Isaac or Ishmael. The came must be true also for the Lemba tribe. You'll find their origins were the Jewish merchants, explorers who came that way. I really don't know if you out for the truth at all, but I see that you're out to prove your hypothesis that Blacks were the first Jews and you're grasping at straws, not the truth.

      Delete
    9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlomo_Sand. Yoshua, your reference of Schlomo Sand turns out to be a communist writer on the radical left who is no Benny Morris as a historian. Try reading from a lot of other sources on our history, and you can start with my many articles on http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com, this blog of http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com and http://israel-nadene.blogspot.com

      Delete
    10. Yoshua, here's one to read of mine. http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2013/03/did-ashkenazic-jews-originate-from.html

      Delete
    11. Could you please explain to me in a non-scientific way how the blackest of Africans end up with 70% of the Cohen Gene if no caucasion person on the planet has ever been tested for more than 30%? If indeed this Cohen Gene is the Identifying marker and the Africans contain a higher percentage, wouldn't common sense dictate whose the source? Please refrain from an answer like wayward "Jews" slept with locals because once again someone with only a maximum of 30% of anything couldn't possibly leave me with 70%..... where did the other 40% of Cohen Genes that no Caucasian "Jew" possess come from??? The only logical conclusion is that the Cohen Gene is not the Gene of Father Abraham... but if you base it on facts and science then the conclusion is obvious,... but please enlighten me

      Delete
    12. What black Africans are you talking about? The Lemba tribe are ones found with J1 haplogroup, the Cohen gene, but I'm not sure what the % of the tribe has this; certainly not 100%. That's one tribe in Africa. I've explained how they intermarried with Jewish traders going through Africa. What's this about 30% of Caucasians. This statement doesn't make sense to me. It happens that Jews make up only 0.02% of the world population. About half or a little less are Cohens. I've already explained that Cohens were a part of the tribe of Levi and were from Aaron with a specific job to do and specific rules about marrying, etc. Thus, the Cohen line has been preserved this way among Jews. It also happens that Abraham himself would have had the J1 haplogroup, so there are Arabs that carry this gene with a slight alteration to show they are Arabs. Your % you are using are more than confusing. We have 3 types of Jews; Ashkenazi that fled to Europe, Sephardi that went to Spain, and Mizrahi who stayed in the Middle East. Blacks from Ethiopia do not have the Cohen gene, so King Solomon's tale about the queen of Sheba being the ancestor is not true. At least the line has died out if it ever was. I suggest you read this blog again and then read some history books on the Jews. You should enjoy "MY PEOPLE-Abba Eban's History of the Jews Volume I, adapted by David Bamberger.

      Delete
  11. Wow! Shalom, Peace, paz among us all! I'm Puerto Rican, J1c3 or P58, and, as far as I know, we all are sons of God.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's my feeling, too, Jose. That's what Judaism teaches me.

      Delete
  12. Shalom, Jose. That's what we Jews believe, Jose, that we were all made in G-d's image/or sons of G-d. Have you been working on your genealogy? Being you're Puerto Rican, you might have ancestors that were from Spain.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, Ma'am, but it looks like the Spaniards, and the 1st half 20th century of US didn't care nor taught us to record our ancestry, so there are not much information on Public Records... But, yes, almost all of us who had the chance to speak to our Great Grandparents heard something about Spanish relationship. Best Regards.

      Delete
  13. Hi all, I born as Iraqi before I Knew that my ancestors were Jews and they hided their religion fearing of persecution , I did the Y-Dna test it was J1c3 P58 + any suggestions to help me trace my heritage ? and what I should do next to get back to my religion am really lost.
    thanks all
    G. AL.

    ReplyDelete
  14. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Salaam and Shalom, G.AL. If you can, take your test to the next highest level and see if it is J1c3d. There should be more that will tell you if it is the Arab line or the Jewish line. If you are still in Iraq, it will be difficult to learn about Judaism. If not, try to get online and learn about Judaism and how if is the same and different from Islam and Christianity. Like Islam, we believe in ONE G-d. We follow the teachings of Moses. A man asked another, "Tell me about Judaism while standing on one foot." He answered, Don't do to him what you don't want done to yourself." It's called the Golden Rule. In other words, treat people like you want to be treated. That's the beginning. If you study Judaism and want to convert, you will need to study with a rabbi. I've written articles that will be helpful for you and there are many others on the web. Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Nadene actually am not Iraq so its much easy.
      I took the DNA test to the next level and it say am J1C3 (P58)+ is that means am J1C3D?? or I should take a further test ? like L222 stand alone test ? thanks

      Delete
  16. I didn't understand before. So you're not in Iraq. It could mean your test is J1c3d. What company did you take the test with? Do you know how many alleles the test was for? 12/25/37/67? I'll try to find out more about the testing for you. I wrote an article, What Haplogroup We Be? It has information about J1. I'll copy and paste the information for you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks so much nadene, you are really helping me out here.
      First I took tests with two companies:1-Genebase 44markers test which gave me the resulte J1C3(P58+).
      2-Family tree DNA the 37 Y DNA test still waiting for the results >
      Now as far as I understood from their websites that I should take more test to confirm if Iam J1c3d*, J1c3d1, or J1c3d2 and here also comes other sub divisions Like L58,L147.1 ....etc.
      So it seems I need to make more tests to figure out my Y DNA However I know that we were converted to islam only 100-120 years ago. this why I find much similarities between us and the jews around the globe like mentality, charechter, face and body features etc..
      What do you think I Should do to become officially Jew ? I do live in Australia by the way.
      thank you in advance

      Delete
    2. There's an excellent chance then that your J1c3 is a Jewish line since you know your family converted to Islam about 100 to 120 years ago. You don't have to take any more tests. J1c3 is a haplogroup of both Arabs and Jews. Yes, of course I'm going to encourage you to study with a rabbi in Australia. Try to find an orthodox one like a Chabad rabbi and tell him your history and dna. You will learn about Judaism and if at the end you want to convert, you will be able to. In the meantime, I would go to the city library and see if they have any books on Judaism to read. That will give you a good start. You will be in a perfect position to compare Judaism with Islam. I note that my friend said " In Jewish populations, J1c3 constitutes 30% of the Yemenite Jews," Then there's a good chance your family were from Yemen. Keep in touch. I'm also on facebook.

      Delete
    3. Here's your first lesson in Judaism which is called the Golden Rule. Don't do to others what you don't want to happen to you. Next, you will find that some stories in our Torah are the same as stories you have heard from the Koran but are different in some ways. That's because Judaism comes of course first from Abraham, who was the first monotheist but then we follow Moses who was born in 1391BCE and died at age 120 in 1271 BCE.Mohammad was born in 570 CE, which means that Moses was born 1,961 years before Mohammad. What must have happened was that Mohammad had heard our stories when Jewish tribes lived in Medina and would tell stories on the street about our biblical history. So here is the Jewish version of stories about Ishamael and Esau. http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2013/05/discord-in-abrahams-tent-over-control.html There are some similarities in our religions, too. Here's another one to read. http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2012/02/differences-between-judaism-and-islam.html Hope this helps get you started.

      Delete
  17. http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html By Nadene Goldfoot
    First, Jews make up less than 1% of the world population today. There are people who have the genes we carry that are not Jewish.

    They could be any of the haplogroups found today, but there are some that are more prevalent than others.

    J1: Abraham and Sarah came from Ur, which was in what is now Iraq. The majority of Ashkenazie Jewish men fall into the Y haplogroup of J. Aaron, Moses’s brother, was the first Cohen, and Cohens are an inherited position and responsibility. Cohens have been found to be J1.

    This haplogroup is found to have arisen 10,000 to 15,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, and Abraham was born only about 4,000 years ago. He is mentioned in Genesis, living in about the 2nd millennium BCE. His father was Terah and was unhappy with his life in Ur in about 2,000 BCE. and left Ur, which was part of the Sumerian civilization. Besides Jews, Arabs, Armenians and Kurds are found in this haplogroup. Interestingly, Kurds are still living in Iraq, even though Saddam Hussein gassed many of them. Kurds have the closest dna to most Jewish men.The highest frequencies are in Iran and Iraq. It was carried by traders into Europe, Central Asia, India, and Pakistan. Most likely traders could have been Jews, who became involved in such endeavors.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Also, another article: http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2013/08/haplogroup-j1-and-j1c3d-or-cohen-gene.html Hope you can open and read this article on J1c3d. I posted a picture from Egypt of the Jews entering Canaan just as the Egyptian artist saw them. It's on the walls of some pyramid. I tell a lot more, G.AL.

    ReplyDelete
  19. G.AL, I found another website for you to read which mentions J1c3. It used to be called J1e. It was discovered in 2008. http://haplogroupj.blogspot.com/. So you do not have the d at the end of the haplogroup name. it is called J1c3. It was a little hard to understand how it differs from J1c3d. I have also asked another friend who has J1c3d about it. Hope to hear from him soon.

    ReplyDelete
  20. " From above website of http://haplogroupj.blogspot.com J1c3
    The P58 marker which defines subgroup J1c3 (previously J1e) was first announced in Karafet et al. (2008), but had been announced earlier under the name "Page08" in 2006 in Repping, Van Daalen & Brown (2006).[4] It is very prevalent in many areas where J1 is common, especially in parts of North Africa and throughout the Arabian peninsula, but notably it is not common amongst the J1 populations in the Caucasus, and it also only makes up approximately 70% of the J1 amongst the Amhara of Ethiopia.
    Chiaroni et al. (2010) propose that J1c3 (which they refer to as J1e) might have first dispersed during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B period, "from a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey toward Mediterranean Anatolia, Ismaili from southern Syria, Jordan, Palestine and northern Egypt". Specifically they propose that the Zarzian material culture may be ancestral. They also propose that this movement of people may also be linked to the dispersal of semitic languages by hunter-herders, who moved into arid areas during periods known to have had low rainfall. Thus while other haplogroups including J2 moved out of the area with agriculturalists who followed the rainfall, populations carrying J1 remained with their flocks.[5][6]
    According to this scenario, after the initial neolithic expansion involving Semitic languages, which possibly reached as far as Yemen, a more recent dispersal occurred during the Chalcolithic or Early Bronze Age (approximately 3000–5000 BCE), and this involved the branch of Semitic which leads to the Arabic language. The authors propose that this involved a spread of some J1c3 from the direction of Syria towards Arab populations of the Arabian Peninsula and Negev.
    On the other hand, the authors agree that later waves of dispersion in and around this area have also had complex effects upon the distributions of some types of J1c3 in some regions. They list three regions which are particularly important to their proposal:
    The Levant (Syria, Jordan, Israel and Palestine). In this area, Chiaroni et al. note a "patchy distribution of J1e frequency" which is difficult to interpret, and which "may reflect the complex demographic dynamics of religion and ethnicity in the region".
    The northern area of eastern Anatolia, northern Iraq and northwest Iran. In this area, Chiaroni et al. recognize signs that J1 might have an older presence, and on balance they accept the evidence but note that it could be in error.
    The southern area of Oman, Yemen and Ethiopia. In this area, Chiaroni et al. recognize similar signs, but reject it as possible a result of "either sampling variability and/or demographic complexity associated with multiple founders and multiple migrations".

    ReplyDelete
  21. In the website-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victar/Haplogroup_J1c3_(Y-DNA), they said that 30% of Yemenite Jews have the haplogroup of J1c3 or P58, as it is also called. As I see it, J1c3 was the original or oldest, going back 9,000 to 10,000 years. J1c3d is a subclade of it, or younger, and is also the Cohen gene. So it's more likely that Abraham and his father had J1c3,

    ReplyDelete
  22. My friend answered that the J1 SNP of L859 tells if you are a Hashimite or not which is an Arab line.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I c, so the Jewish Gene might be L222 ? or J1c3b1 ? am I right ?

      Delete
    2. L222.2 is found to be Kurdish. J1c3d is Jewish and a Ydna haplogroup.

      I believe that J1c3b1 is an mtDNA haplogroup . Men can be tested for both the Y and the MT dna, but women can only be tested for the MTdna haplogroup.

      Delete
    3. IC. but I think it's Y-DNA . What I get Here is that :
      1) J1c3d1 L222 and J1c3D2 L222.2 I think they belong to adnani and Mudhuri arabs not kurds :) .
      2)while on the other hand J1c3 P58 L147.1 L58 can be observed in Hashimitti family .
      3) Aaron Line most likely J1c3 (p58) which is the same as the kohanim line CMH (According to Wikipedia)
      4)As you Said Abraham line is J1c3d which is a sub clade from Aaron line( ??!!!) (Somebody correct me here , I know it can't be!.)
      5)Most of the Sumerians (humanity oldest civilization ) are likely J1 as found in Iraqi ppl of marshes which are supposed to be descendant from Sumerians, and Abraham his self was a Sumerian from UR old Iraqi city).

      Delete
    4. sorry Misspelling here I meant J1c3d1 not J1c2b1 .

      Delete
    5. The Hashimite I know (royalty) is a J1c3d with the SNP I had mentioned before. Without that SNP, his haplogroup would be the same as Cohens with J1c3d. This would go back to J1c3 and so on.

      Delete
  23. More information from my friend, who is a Hashimite: Saying Abrahim and his father back to Noah could have been J1c3 sounds like a very bad theory
    The ancestor of J1c3 is J1c, and the you're right about it that J1c3d is the descendant of J1c3
    It was known as J1e until February 2010 but not 2008, when a number of mutations were discovered in the J1 tree that made a change in nomenclature necessary.

    Haplogroup J1c3, defined by the P58 marker is most frequent in Yemen-Saudi (65%) It is also very common among other Arabs such as those of the Levant, i.e. Palestinian (38.5%), Syria (30%), Lebanon (25%). In Jewish populations, J1c3 constitutes 30% of the Yemenite Jews, 20.0% of Ashkenazi results, and 12% of Sephardi results

    But the chances are high that Abraham and father were J1c3, but Noah could have been J1c. You're Iraqi friend carries y-dna genes of Abraham's time, lol. but that doesn't makes him a descendant of Abraham, but makes him among the people of Abraham's time. J1c3d arabs/israelites are the direct descendants of Abraham in that case.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Nadene,
      I compared my Dys markers against the CMH12 Kohanim markers and it showed a lot of similarities but they were not fully identical, I would happy to send you my Markers if you would like Nadene?.
      Am sure we were Iraqi Jews maybe the oldest Jews since Jewish first diaspora when The Assyrian conquered Israel long time ago.
      More likely from the Aaron Branch and Levite tribe.
      every day am learning a new thing about my past I never thought I would be a real Jew before but now am sure. our features are all Jewish.
      features

      Delete
    2. I'm not an expert on the J1 Cohen gene, but that's why I suggest that you send your markers to FTDNA, in my reply below. You certainly sound like your theory is correct and I hope it is. It's exciting to find such a test going back so far. Not only must you be listed as a real Jew but from one of the first group! Being in Iraq makes this very probable. Let me know what more you find out and Good Luck with it. After all this research you may be picking genetics as your new profession!

      Delete
  24. Here's another thought. Have your test transferred to familytreedna, a company in Houston, Texas, so that your results can be compared with other J1c3s and you can belong to their group as well. Do their familyfinder test and see who you match up with in your 23 chromosome segments. You will see if they are Jewish or not today. Eventually you will also want to transfer your test to GedMatch where people from all DNA companies send their results to match up with others. I have done that and the leaders of our group have done a triangulation to see matches. That's something I still don't understand but I know it tells a lot. It sounds to me like your DNA is very exciting being it goes back in our history. Learn as much as you can about it.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hi my result j2 j2=jewish ? am i jewish ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rocker_tr, Having J2 does not in itself make you Jewish, but you could have Jewish roots way back. I don't know your history. To be Jewish, you must have a Jewish mother, or the Reformed would say you would have at least a Jewish father. If you read some of these comments, there are many Jews with either J1 or J2. This is a good time for you to start your own genealogy tree and do some research on your family.

      Delete
  26. Information about Syria's Mizrahi Jews in Aleppo: http://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/2014/06/mizrahi-nation/?utm_source=Mosaic+Daily+Email&utm_campaign=7c8d526492-2014_6_3&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0b0517b2ab-7c8d526492-41144429 , now in Israel, New York, too

    ReplyDelete
  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  28. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  29. If the children of Abraham all were either haplogroup of J1 or J2 as this line is traced back to Noah and all 12 sons of Jacob should carry this J1 haplogroup. Where does the 15 to 30% of all Jewish men belonging to E1b1b (E-M35.) fits into this equation? Haplogroup DE ("father" group of E & the obviously non-Hebrew group E) branched off separately from Haplogroup CF way before Haplogroup IJ (and its two "sons" Haplogroup I & J) came to be distinctive haplogroups that rooted from Haplogroup CF, not DE. Therefore, Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) must come from converts. Can you give us a historical theory on this? How Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) became Hebrews without being part of Haplogroup J1 that branched off before other non-Hebrew groups that are closer to J1 origins? Therefore, Albert Einstein belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1b2* E-Z830, with a sample taken from a paternal descendant of Naphtali Hirsch Einstein making him from convert origins.

    ReplyDelete
  30. * I meant Haplogroup DE ("father" group of E & the obviously non-Hebrew group D)

    ReplyDelete
  31. Read another of my articles at: http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html. E is a Middle Eastern haplogroup. When a line died out, all daughters being born, they would marry a man who was an E or a G, etc. and maybe they had to be the leader of the tribe. That way other haplogroups were picked up into the tribes.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Can you help me interpreting this? Does this mean that if a female has the maternal line of J1C3 than since being jewish is coming from the mother, that person is effectively jewish?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Cyhel, your comment hasn't come up here yet, but whether you are Jewish or not depends on your mother. If she is/was Jewish, then you are. As far as your J1C3 mtDNA haplogroup, 7% of J1s are found to be Jewish. I would do a good job at doing a genealogy research on your family on both sides if I were you to see if anyone could have been Jewish. Your mother's line would have had the J1C3, so really search that. The Spanish Inquisition was in 1492. A lot of Jews were forced to convert/move or die. It repeated in Portugal a few years later. So somebody in your family could have done this and had become a converso. It could have happened earlier during the Crusades, or at anytime.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I am a gentile with J1 Y haplogroup. I am the son of Colombian parents. But yet everyone I meet thinks I am Arab when they first meet me. Perhaps the genes show in my phenotype!

    ReplyDelete
  35. ca mo, Since you have the J1 Y haplogroup, you could have ancestors that were Jewish. You know about the Spanish Inquisition of 1492 when Jews have to either convert to Christianity or leave Spain. Those that moved to Portugal also had to leave there, too, after a few years. Some became "Marranos"now called Anusim, hidden Jews and stayed in Portugal. In Columbia hidden Jews settled in Barranquilla and Cali early in the 16th century, but the Inquisition followed them and killed them. Then Jews returned in the middle of the 19th century. More came after WWI when immigrants arrived from eastern Europe and Palestine during the Nazi period. Jewish immigration was forbidden in 1939 when the doors were also shut to Jews, locking them in Germany. Most Jews live in Bogota, Cali Barranquilla and Medellin. In 1990 there were 7,000 Jews in Columbia. You need to do a genealogy tree on your family. Also, did you do the 67 allele Ydna test? Do a little higher and find out if your line is the Arab one or the Jewish one. I also recommend doing an autosomal DNA test to find out whose chromosome segments you share. If your testing shows Ashkenazi matches, or Sephardic or Mizrachi matches, you have Jewish matches. I don't know what it is they find that shows Arab lines of the J1, but there is something they use to tell. I'd bet you have Jewish ancestors.

    ReplyDelete
  36. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I don't believe that haplogroup J is the true Jewish haplogroup, how can anybody know that? did scientist test the bones of Aaron or anybody alive alive 3000 years ago? not, they didn't...The fact that haplogroup J is Jewish is based on assumptions. Because most Jews today are J1 today, It doesn't mean the original Israelites 3000 years ago were J...Science is about whatever can be proven with certainty, we know that black holes exist in the universe because we observed them, before observation, it was a hypothesis with strong support based on Einstein's work....Talmud Sanhedrin says very clearly that all nations were mixed by the Assyrian king Sennacherib and he confused the nations obliterating their national identity, displacing them, and mixing them. Moreover, we had invasions, displacement, rape, and mass immigration throughout history....Technically Abraham could be from any haplogroup (R,E,G,J,etc.)...most nations were concentrated in the Middle East by the time Abraham lived, Nimrod was the king of the world, so please lets stop lying to people with partial studies that are not support by strong facts and that relies on predictions. Haplogroups are mutations, and mutations can be given by radiation, nutrition, environmental factors, etc..two unrelated people could obtain the same mutation by convergence...Autosomal DNA is the best way to prove things because it gives us details from last 5 generation that can be traceable, in addition, Y chromosome is just a sex chromosome with barely any genes.....Those mutations can't even be linked to the oral story of Noah and Abraham because they came to be over 20,000 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Nehemia; first of all, the Cohens have been tested and overwhelmingly are J1. This is called the Cohen gene. The Cohens come from Aaron, brother of Moses. They were from the tribe of Levi, one of the 12 tribes from Jacob (Israel). They trace back to Abraham. Remember, Abraham had Ishmael by Hagar, Sarah's handmaiden first. Many Arabs also have J1. I know a couple, one of which is deeply into DNA testing and who is J1. I know a Cohen in the synagogue, personally, who is J1. Did you read my article carefully or are you just going by the title? You could study DNA more, and our history, and then see that the two are connecting. The line of Jews with J1 come from Aaron. The evidence is overwhelming.

    ReplyDelete
  39. hi nadene. is the real difference between jews and arabs boiling down in the maternal dna? abraham and sarah were brother and sister through terah but supposedly in something i read terah was married to two sisters (from among his own sisters,cousins-as his heritage was in marrying) giving abraham and sarah the same maternal dna as well as paternal--like a double dose from the J1 pool? does it not further reinforce in that levi and jochebed were both of levi? and was it practice for cohen men to marry cohen women? the strains of jewish dna seem to be quite strongly represented and apparent that have not diluted beyond recognition to blend in as some may try to portray in my understanding. just wondering your thoughts.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Andre, Actually, the difference is in the religion itself and the culture more than the DNA, but yes, the maternal DNA plays a big part, too. Abraham was the uncle of Sarah. Sara's father was Haran, brother of Abraham. Terah was Abraham and Haran's father. Yes, Jews got double doses of certain segments of chromosomes, no doubt. Here's something you might want to read that I just wrote. http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2014/12/2nd-millennium-bce-in-days-of-dinah-and.html. Also, get the book, Abraham's Children; rrace, identity, and the DNA of the chosen people by Jon Entine and I think he answers all your questions. It was common to marry within their tribe. All tribes have done that; Native American tribes as well as the tribes of Great Britain. Cohens had rules in who they could marry, and the main one was they couldn't marry a divorced woman, I believe. Yes, we are closely related but there are restrictions on that. We are not to marry 1st cousins, though we did way back when there were no other people to marry in the beginning of our history-2nd millennium BCE. At least siblings have never married like Egypt did. This is why Jews often times need to know if their expected child is going to have certain dna carried diseases or not. It's why scientiest like to study us. We've been isolated from the rest of the world either from being in ghettos or in some similar position. One thing. While Ashkenazi Jews were in Europe, they married other Ashkenazi Jews. Intermarriage was very rare, and if it happened at all, it was the man who married someone from that area and she usually would then convert. That's how mtdna would be brought into the group that might not have been there. By the way, Levi was Jochabed's father. Of course they were both of the tribe of Levi.

    ReplyDelete
  41. thanks for the reply back nadene. i really enjoy your posts and like your facebook page too.
    i do have some more questions...
    does anyone know the name of the mother and maternal haplogroup of abraham, nahor, and haran? was she also of the line of shem as terah was? and is it known who was the mother of haran's children sarah, milcah, and lot? i know that rebecca was the granddaughter of milcah and nahor through their son bethuel and i know that abraham had issac's wife picked from his family that lived back in the city of nahor so i wonder if all those respective wives were related as cousins or nieces also that might possibly have been of the same maternal haplogroup as their husbands. are these kind of details in the book you recommend for me to read? will look into this and check out the blogspot again to see what you referenced. have been dna tested myself and find all this fascinating! have discovered my own maternal haplogroup is J1c3e2 which is hard to trace for me at this point but want to study. in any case if you are aware of this info and/or it is covered in the book i want to thank you for steering me toward the answers to those questions.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Thanks, Andre. Another article I've written should have all your answers. Go to http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html which is all about Jewish haplogroups; both the Y and the Mt and read about them. You can decide for yourself what mt haplogroup might fit. I think I also mentioned a few for the period around Abraham. It could very well be the mt J1 that you belong to, only a more ancient branch-though our mt haplogroups don't mutate as quickly as the Y does. There is just no way of knowing the mt exactly for abraham etc. as we women had only 7 haplogroups that were major to start with and we've managed to spread around the world quite a bit. Something like finding 40% of Jews with the Cohen gene of J1 and finding that they are also Cohens in the synagogue plus the history involved really narrows it down for us, but we women are a little different. It would be interesting to know your history and where you are from to be carrying J1 MT haplogroup, though.

    ReplyDelete
  43. i went to check out your blogspot and read about dinah and her brothers. i like to read your articles. found you just a few months back and am glad i did! btw i'm a girl. don't let the name spelling fool ya. anyway my J1c3e2 comes from northern italy. my g-grm family immigrated from turin italy in 1872 and came to southern louisiana. her grm (my ggg-grm was from sardinia). my g-grm susan narretto joiner was a strawberry blonde with very blue eyes. i have read that maternal J1 could be a small percentage jewish but that percentage is quite small. don't know enough about all this yet but according to my gedcom kit # i show a tad of ashkenazi jew. who knows? also interesting to me is i am looking at my daddy's side and his mother's paternal side is named catt and german and i'm looking to see if there is a wuertemberg katz connection. that is where the katz family in america that i am aware of immigrated from. i have a dna match that has that name and tie back to that specific spot in germany and know now our catt name was anglicanized (i never knew that german was in us-lots of french and italian, etc etc-your general mutt i call us) -- anyway reading about that katz name makes me wonder if there is something jewish coming from that angle. again who knows...i did find in our genealogy another possible jewish source and it is again northern italy but on my mothers father's side. moorish/jewish?/italian-the famous bassano brothers who were musicians and makers of woodwind instruments for king henry the 8th of all people. imported by him for his court who were possibly of spain before italy but some sources claim they were part jewish. so who knows about that one too right? but gets really interesting this stuff ;) i know that. J1c3 has been found in scandanavia from what i have read. my mother has swedish in her background so we are your all 'round mutts like i said. but then pretty much everyone is now right? i will be glad to look up your particular blogpost and read about the jewish haplogroups. have always been interested in the jewish people. i love them. and maybe that is because i have some of that heritage in me--and--as i'm told to in ps 122:6-9 i pray for the peace of jerusalem. ;) thanks again for the hints and help! andre'

    ReplyDelete
  44. So that's where Andre comes from-Louisiana. You know, Jews were in Rome-held as slaves after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE (common era-same as AD) and so they were in Italy and then they went into France and Germany. You probably do have some genes from your Ashkenazi Jewish ancestors being you are a J1c3e2. Glad you're enjoying my articles. I have 3 blogs I write in. Lots of Jewish history in there. Yes, for a TV movie, The Red Tent was interesting, but they sure moved away from the main idea of the actual biblical story. She was raped. She didn't fall in love.

    ReplyDelete
  45. well that would be typical hollywood then.....yes i am a louisiana girl up here in wyoming ;) . actually i have seen migration maps that show some of what you mention about jews in italy. i am considered 100% european according to my gedcom. on my daddy's side also is where quite a bit of the german shows up. that is why i want to explore the katz name. that name is intriguing because i read it is not a name but an acronym. anyway i have wondered if there is a jewish component there from our katz/catt name. a few of the other places on the gedcom origins map showing for paternal side are czechoslovakia, greece, spain, and also switzerland. the mt J1c3e2 is pretty hard to trace so far for me and thus far i have no actual matches on my page. i looked on the ftdna page specifically about J1c3e2 and though not a match to me, i found a man named gershonowitz from lithuania (1800's) and some (not many) other names. one was from finland and another from italy and still another from switzerland so who knows when i actually do get a match where they will come from! the possibilities are pretty fun stuff in my book :) . thank you nadene for the nice chat about jewish dna and the fabulous history that surrounds it. this is why i am enjoying you blogs so much. the jewish story is all the more beautiful because so many have tried to keep it from being told. well i'm listening and want to learn much more. all the best to you nadene. andre'

    ReplyDelete
  46. Andre, Katz is a very Jewish surname. My best girlfriend in high school was Shirley Katz, and her parents were holocaust survivors. Have you taken the FTDNA's familyfinder test? That's an autosomal test that can find matches with people you share segments of chromosomes with. You must have if you're using the gedcom website. I'm going to write another one this morning pertaining to German Jews and what happened to so many of them other than the Holocaust. Thanks for sharing.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Taking it back to Adam and Eve simplifies it to me. http://passionateproject.blogspot.com/2014/10/gods-chosen-people-race-or-religion_31.html

    ReplyDelete
  48. Angela, is this your blog? You wrote a book with that one article. Wow! It's quite a subject; all kinds of theories floating around. By the way, King Solomon is said to have had 1,000 wives/concubines. No telling how many children he had or what they looked like with all those different mothers. I have the view that my ancestors were rather short who were on the Exodus. After a famine that led them to enter Egypt, and then to have become slaves from the time of entering to leaving being 400 years, I figure they were lacking certain foods and may have been short like my great aunt, uncle and grandmother from Eastern Europe were who lived through pogroms and deprivation before getting to the USA. When the 12 Israelites spied on Canaan, they said the Canaanites were very tall, much taller than they were.

    ReplyDelete
  49. I'm E1b1a8a, I uploaded my Data to Gedmatch and it shows that I have some middle eastern DNA while 23andme does not. I only match up with 4 Jewish populations, which are, the Lemba, the Cochin Jews, the Ethiopian jews, and the Bnei-Mannesseh jews, how ever, I only match with the Cochin Jews/Bnei-Mannesseh jews on my paternal side, but I match up with the Lemba, and Ethiopian Jews on both my maternal and paternal side, is there a way of telling if the Haplogroup is coming from a Semitic line? Cause I heard that the ashkenazi Jews were able to prove that there particular R1a/R1b haplogrpup came from the near east/Middle East because they did not have a certain SNP marker that belonged to the Europeans's version of R1b/R1a, which is why they were able to tell it came from a Semitic line , so is there a way to tell if a Haplogroup came from a Semitic line despite it being seen as sub-Saharan African? Btw, I heard that the Ethiopian Jews according to a new study has at least 1 or 2 Jewish founders and it's ancient like before Jesus was even born ancient.But they don't claim to be from Solomon anymore, they claim to be from the tribe of Dan.

    Oh as for your other thing about neandtheral, I heard 23andme only goes back 500 years on Human ancestry, I guess they have a special lab that dedicates Non-Human genes.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Destinae, read my article, What Haplogroup We Be? It's about the haplogroups found among Jewish people. http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html. Google your E1b1a8a and something might come up to tell you more. When haplogroups come from someplace, it's like 24,000 years ago, way before Judaism started with Moses. Moses (1391-1271 BCE)lived better than only some 3,000 years ago and was born in Egypt. Yes, amazing they can find Neanderthal genes. Some of the Lemba tribe have been found to carry the Y J1 haplogroup which is the Cohen gene. Evidently Jewish men who were traders went through Africa and mixed with the Lembas and settled down there, teaching them about Judaism. The Ethiopians have the story of meeting with Solomon and returned to Ethiopia with the handmaidens pregnant or at least the Queen of Sheba did. Cochin Jews are from India, aren't they? R1a seems to be a line of Levites found today.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Destinae, I mention the tribe of Dan in this article. http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-blot-in-our-history-losing-ten.html.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Can you help me with the haplogroup H1? Ive read various things on the group and am a little confused. Also I dont understand how my relations are all J1 and R1a and I am not. Can you explain that too please? And one last question. With 23andme I came back 0% Ashkenazim but my paper trail says different and my relationship with the J1 and R1a would say different I believe. Is it due to the sample size at 23andme? I was not raised Jewish or ever told of any Jewish relation. I believe because of the pogroms my family converted to Catholicism. At least on my mothers side. I know almost nothing on my fathers side as they divorced when I was a baby and she never spoke of him other than to give me his name. He was French. I do also have Iberian and Balkin in there. Thanks for all your help.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Hi Laura, with a surname like Olofson, it's either your husband or your father who is Scandinavian. H1 is an mtDNA haplogroup-from mother to daughter, males carry it but you as a female inherit your mt from your mother and she from her mother, etc. Go to my other website and read What Haplogroup We Be? Personally, I am H2a1 and my mother's mother was born in Sweden. My mother converted to Judaism as she married a Jewish man and wished to do so.. http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html for more information on H1 under JEWISH WOMEN. So if you weren't raised Jewish and your DNA did not specify any result being Ashkenazi or Sephardi, what makes you think you have Jewish ancestors? You say all your relatiions are all J1? Are you speaking about the men or the women? There is a J haplogroup line in mtdna and one that is called the Cohen gene in the Y (male) haplogroup line. I take it that you took the test and are H1 which is an mt haplogroup. Yes, long ago, especially at the time of 1492 and long after that, the Spanish Inquisition caused pogroms, killings, etc, of Jews and a few did convert. Try to find out about your father's side. Ask your mother for his full name, birthdate, city of birth, then join http://www.ancestry.com which is a pay website and join for a month and try to track him down-by his surname of course. Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Nadene, Sorry I had trouble logging in and shortened my question out of frustration.
    We started with a paper search awhile back. My mother and biological father are both passed on. My mother only gave me his name a couple years before she passed. He was French and I believe Italian. His family came to the U.S. by way of Canada. That much I know. My mothers side was from Germany supposedly. But when we started out the genealogy search we only found our sire name in a town called Tabor. I think it was either all Jewish or pretty close to it. We didnt find our name in the town my Uncle had said we came from. Also my maternal grandmother was abandoned when she was young. And so she never talked about her family. Yes, my hubby is a Swed. We have also looked up the Kollmann name and it seems to be a Jewish name. I cant take any Y tests as I said my father is gone and he had a son who is also gone. Not to mention none of his family knows I exist. And frankly I dont have to money to drop for another test. I was disappointed with the one I took. There wasnt much they told me that I didnt already know. Except the H1 thing. It is almost all male relatives that are J1. And I did make an error its R1b not R1a that the other male relatives are. These are 2nd and 3rd cousins. Thanks for your help and I will check the link.Your blog is a big help. And I appreciate the topics very much.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Laura, go to http://www.jewishgen.org/ which is a free website and write in Kollmann and yes, it is a Jewish name. I didn't choose Austria as a country, I chose the United States to start with and then after that Germany and Kollmanns came up in huge numbers. You'll spend a year trying to decide what line of Kollmanns your mother came from. There's tons of information. R1b is a common European male line. Are they direct descendants of your father? I don't think so, not from what you have written, so don't pay attention to that unless they are direct descendants of your maternal grandfather. But you want to find out all you can about your mother. What city did your mother die in? Where was she living last? Did her mother come with her? Where was the last place your maternal grandmother lived? You've got to take out a month's subscription to www.ancestry.com and if the answer was the USA, take out only the USA subscription first. When you can afford to and need it, then take the world subscription. Incidently, "Tábor (Czech pronunciation: [ˈtaːbor]; German: Tabor) is a city of the Czech Republic, in the South Bohemian Region. The name became popular and nowadays translates to "camp" or "encampment" in Czech.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Hi Nadene, Enjoying your website! I've been using 23&Me trying out the "Browse Raw Data" to find different haplogroups and notice I have rs#'s that could be jewish, especially the Cohen (CMH) like J1c3-P58; J-M267; J-M172; J-M12; J-M318; J-M92; E-L117; E-M78; E-M215; E-M183; F-M89; G-M285; G-M201; G-M287; I-M170; I-M253; O-M176; H-M69; N-M231; Q-M242; Q-MEH2; L-M20; L-M317; R-M269; R-P25, R-M207; R-M173; R-M17; R-M124; and T-M70 to name a few...I have a few Levite ones as well (LMH)...I don't know if I have any jewish ancestry, although at times both of my parents were told they looked jewish..I know this data could be all non-Jewish as the percentage is small for jewish linage, but does it seems unusual that I would have most of these Hg's or is this normal for a lot people?...23&Me says my dominant Haplogroups are Ydna=R1b1b2a1a2f* and mt=H4a1a.....My Ancestry Composition has <.1% Ashkenazi..They say they are confident with the results, but I find their explanations rather vague!..I understand that there might be Sephardic lineage in the mix..I would appreciate your input.. Thank you!.....Eric S.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How interesting, Rick. I have tested at 23&Me, too, but wasn't brave enough to Browse Raw Data. I transferred my results to FTDNA and can see their results which I think is the raw data such as the 23 chromosomes, start and stop numbers, amount of cMs, SNPs,. I'll have to try that. 1% isn't very much so your Jewish connection must go back to someplace like Rome or even Jerusalem before 70 CE. I know I have Italy showing up and know from my genes and genealogy that I connect with a famous Jewish family there, Kalonymos. That was 3% Italian. I think my son inherited 1% of it. So your connection can be from way back and then your Jewish ancestor converted. What happened was that Jews were taken prisoners and forced to go with the Roman army when they took over places and the Jews had to do the dirty work. Often they were first settlers in new lands that way. Well, Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews were all from the tribe of Judah and or some were also from Benjamin since the 10 other tribes were dragged away by the Assyrians in 721 BCE. It was the direction they had taken that created the division; some in Spain who became Sephardim, and others from Rome who became Ashkenazim. I imagine they were following family leaders and maybe the family leaders were following their favorite religious leaders from the Sanhedrin, or even maybe they were following traders who had been in these places and knew the landscape. Now, if you're able to, you can send your dna results from 23&Me to GedMatch.com and see who you match up with from other dna companies. It's a free site and they have all sorts of things you can do to see your results. I've got mine there because a good friend did it for me. It's a little tricky for me, maybe not for you to do. Who knows? Your ancestor could very well have been a Cohen-ancestor of Aaron, brother of Moses.

      Delete
    2. Thanks Nadene!...That sounds like a good idea and I will try GedMatch out and see what I get...Thanks for the historical information as well...I love history and it would be a cool thing to find out a possible Jewish, even Cohen connection!...Thanks!

      Delete
  57. Great, Rick. I just heard from another fellow who put his results in GedMatch. All you will need to go in and see your results and find matches if any is your kit number, so have that handy. I had my test with Family Tree DNA so the number for GedMatch will start with F for me and my kit number. Good luck! reading about out history. Glad you love history.

    ReplyDelete
  58. From Diogenes: A French man can be J1 & J2 subclades,G whatever ! T, Q R1b R1a I1 I2a2 and subclades, E1..subcl, N1c (rare latvian Estonian ) Saami West Siberia and East Asia ...AND IS A FRENCHMAN.....
    Why then, the Jews like me: 99,9% Pure European Stock and 0,1% Yakut (!) and 86% ashkenazim cousins Clusterings of these european old stocks, NOT BE Israeli? or French...?
    Invaders J1 of a J1 dominant Country have NO RIGHTS on That Country! For example: Arabs On Yemenites....! and reverse !
    "Bad Faith" is the worse human defect one cannot fight against without mostly killing the bad guy!!!! Pity...but a Fact. Nazis BELIEVED in their fancies and wanted even to die for them! They courage was a result of that Bad Faith (or False Conscience..)

    ReplyDelete
  59. Come on, Diogones, you have to be a citizen of that country in order to be able to say you are American or Israeli. Being Jewish isn't enough. Citizens have rights and in Israel are able to vote. You can't vote on issues if you are an American or Frenchman on Israel. Don't forget that Israel also has 80% of non-Jews living there as full citizens as well. You switched gears on me with your bringing up bad faith. I lost the drift when you were talking first about being Israeli without living there as a citizen.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I find a lot of whole is blog co cerning the "Jews." Anyone with a lille common sense and see after little study (Bibliccly speaking) and with some history , that Jews of today in Israel are not the same from the Bible.

    ReplyDelete
  61. lashyone, what is your point? We're carrying the same dna as our ancestors. DNA has shown where our ancestors are from. I have a friend, a shirttail relative who has the Y haplogroup of J1 and he happens to be a Cohen-called on first in the synagogue to read from the Torah. He's 92 years old. He had the test a few years ago and found out scientifically through DNA he is a Cohen-direct descendant from Aaron, brother of Moses. Of course it's been 3,000 years or so since the Bible days, and we have advanced. This happens to be a blog about us Jews. The Bible prophesizes that we would return to Israel and we have. The 10 tribes are being found and some have already returned. Amazing, isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  62. All 12 tribes were and are black, e1b1a is a true jew gene people are awaking to this fact. Those who say they are jews and are not rule the land now and are the synagogue of satan that the bible speaks of as Israel has been trample by gentiles as Christ said it would be until their time is fulfilled! times coming to an end for you guys!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Synagogue of Satan? That certainly lets me know how you are thinking. That is completely wrong. I think you need to attend some other churches and get a broader view of the facts. Some of your friends may be black and carry the e1b1a haplogroup, but so do many all white people. My cousin, for one, and another friend are Jewish and E-L117. They are not black. All 12 tribes wee not black, and not all are e1b1a. The Cohens happen to be J1c3d, and they came from Aaron. Read the real bible and it's there. The Pathans of Afghanistan and Pakistan are said to be from the 10 tribes taken away by the Assyrians and they are not black. What say you about that? What you think is not historically true nor is it scientifically true. You're been reading the wrong books.

      Delete
  63. When the real jews get back in the land the world will be at peace as isaiah 14 says, right now gentiles rule the land as christ said they would.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Real Jews are back, and more will be coming. Why don't you think they are real? Our history and our DNA prove it. Our ancestors were those written about in the Bible. We've kept the faith.

      Delete
    2. Sorry lady, but Joel 3 says what will hapoen when the real jew comes back,the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

      2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

      3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

      4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

      5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:

      6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

      7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:

      8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it."



      You guys are gentiles the so called afro americans who were sold to the greeks (european) are true Iarael.

      Delete
    3. Caleb, Joel was writing about another time and another place; not today. We lost Israelites in 722 BCE to the Assyrians when they attacked. Then the Babylonians came along and they attacked in 597 BCE and again in 586 BCE and took people away to Babylon, where they finally returned home 70 years later. What addition are you adding to my article? We're back in Israel today and I've written about it. Joel is known to have lived as early as the 9th century BCE, and more probably as late as the 4th century BCE. The book of Joel contains 4 chapters; 1 and 2 describe a locust plague. 3 and 4 treat of the "Day of the Lord" when G0d will restore his people from captivity and punish their enemies in the plain of Jehoshaphat.
      I take it you are Black and are trying to prove that we Jews are not Jews but you and your pals are. You are wrong and have no proof of such a theory. We have Jews that are Black, however, in Israel. The Ethiopians are one major group. We think this is when the Queen of Sheba came to visit King Solomon. We have found another tribe in Africa who are descendants of some Cohens who traveled there doing trading and stayed. Some Black group has left the USA and has gone to Israel saying they are a remnant of the Jewish people, but none go around saying that we are not Jews and ONLY Blacks are or were Jews.

      Delete
  64. Verse 1 was cut off but reads" For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem," Also Isaiah 14 says the whole world will be at peace when true Israel is back in their land, sorry lady youve been mistaught. Here's what the bible says about the so called jew in the land today. Rev 3:9-"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are interpreting Isaiah with a "TRUE ISRAEL" and not understanding we are Jews who have returned and we have all the proof we will ever need. We don't accept Revelations as that is in the New Testament. That's a very anti-Semitic statement, isn't it.

      Delete
  65. Sorry im on my phone so excuse typos and I accidently posted on one of your different blogs, idk what happened with that

    ReplyDelete
  66. Semetic is supposed to be spelled SHEMetic and since uou guys arent Israel one cannot be ANTI what yoi are not.LOL The few black news in Israel are oppressed by the white power structure and commiting suicide at an alarming rate, Joel chap 3 is refering yo the LAAT DAYS, just like Isaiah chapter 14 is and all the prophecies prove that you are NOT real jews. You never went to slavery AGAIN on ships as Deut 28 said you would or led captive into the nations, the Lemba are true Jews but of course the gentile power structure wont let them back home either. Dr ben eohraim has tried above to explain the evidence to you so Im not even going to try to further explain it.Theres white Khazars like you guys who admit these lies and miseducation of your people themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Talking to you is a waste of time, I see. You're set on not thinking that the 6 million Jews of the USA and the 6 million of Israel and another 2 million scattered throughout the world as Ashkeanzis, Sephardis and Mizrachis are are actually descendants of the Jews of ancient Israel and Judah. I know about the Lemba tribe-referred to it as the one in Africa. Read THE LOST ARK OF THE COVENANT by Tudor Parfitt and you will see he wrote about his encounter with them in finding what he thought was the Lost Ark. They are the ones carrying the Cohen gene, and their DNA shows this. It took a while in bringing the Ethiopians to Israel. I was living there in Safed when they arrived. Many were very ill and had to be hospitalized first. It's not me they have to convince; it's many issues going on in Israel right now-but first with evidence with the rabbis, I imagine. If they take a reliable autosomal DNA test, and have it scrutinized with GedMatch.com, they'll find out a lot. You are being very rude, so this is the last time I will publish your comments.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Nadene, I looked at the commentary offered by Caleb as you suggested. I read through several comments as well. Most have an intelligent, thoughtful and respectful tone. Caleb is like having a discussion with an argumentative rock...I would rather go clean my bathroom.

    Besides between Vespasian, Hadrian and the carting off of the remaining Jews to Europe is a conversation rocks are not equipped to have. Excellent article by the way

    Jeff Morton

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Jeff, so much. I was pulling my hair out trying to get Caleb to learn something. I knew you could add a great comment and was very knowlegable about this.

      Delete
  69. The nonsense touted by groups such as the Black Hebrew Isrealites and those people who believe all Jews were black folk is based on revisionist history written about 20 minutes ago! In 1948 (for those of us who believe in our Creator a biblical miracle occurred. The nation of Israel was "Born Again" The generations born following the carting off of the 'Remaining" Jewish people via the lunacy of Hadrian to Europe well documented. Just like the world today, different races existed the world over at that time too. To use an example all of the people living in Germany are not white folks from the era of the vikings. However, groups like the Black Hebrew Israelites would attempt to make one believe this to be truth. Antisemitism is a universal attempt to deny Jewish, anything, anywhere and at any cost. I have read through several posts above when I come to Caleb's comments I hear the antisemitic rhetoric that un-intelligently espouses the lunacy of groups like the Black Hebrew Israelites and others. The fact is our Creator raised up the nation of Israel by returning the descendants of those carted off the Rome, Europe 2000 years ago which opened the door for the four corners of the earth to do the same.....just as was written in the "Hebrew Scriptures" and not all of those returning are Vikings!

    ReplyDelete
  70. Jeff, I knew you could see through Caleb's background and see where he came up with his astounding conclusions about Jews. Too bad he doesn't get with some other group and actually learn some facts. Fantastic job in writing your comments as usual. If Caleb is ever interested, you have several blogs that he should read and learn, also and can find them if he googles your name.

    ReplyDelete
  71. I agree with Yoshua Ben Ephraim, Caleb, and the rest of those raising some great eyebrow raising questions. I think its pretty clear through scripture as well as genetics who are the true biblical Israelites and who aren't.

    ReplyDelete
  72. If you aren't convinced with the information in my article, fine. However, this is not facebook. I'm not carrying on a dialog about your theory which is contrary to the evidence I have presented. I haven't heard of the authorities in Israel being convinced of it yet, either. Gabrielle, you and Yoshua present no evidence that the biblical Jews of which are my ancestors, were black. When people do carry black genes, it shows up in DNA tests. Even Neanderthal genes show up in DNA tests. The thinking about them is that they were never in Africa but were on other continents, and they were fair-skinned and possibly even red-headed. I myself have 2.9% of Neanderthal genes. But I have no black genes. People from mixed heritages may have. Dr. Carson, who just dropped out of the presidential USA race, is 20% white and 80% black. His tribe was even stated in the DNA testing. I know of people who have mixed parents and are Jewish. What you present is a different thing denying that the biblical Jews were white. From all scientific evidence, they were not black, or our DNA would show this. Biblical evidence does not say that anyone was Black. There are Black Jews living in New York who claim descent from Ethiopian Jews. Some believe they are descendants of black converts to Judaism dating back to American and West Indian slavery days. Most have adopted Judaism recently. One main group was first organized as a congregation in 1930 by one of their members, Rabbi Wentworth A. Matthew. Some blacks have converted to Judaism and live in many parts of the USA. A community from Chicago, after an unsuccessful experience in Liberia, arrived in Israel claiming to be Black Jews. they were allowed to remain and settled in Dimona where they numbered around some 200 hundred. I don't know if they have stayed there. One of my friends on facebook is an Ethiopian Jew. He's a great person, a lawyer, and has been studying to be a Rabbi. He works with his people. He serves in the IDF and is a great Jew. People like that are greatly respected. He knows his history and it agrees with mine.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Nadene, As a Q-YP1004 I can say that I am white with hazel eyes and at one time was blond. My second son is blond with blue eyes

    ReplyDelete
  74. Thanks for your imput, David. The same in our family has happened. We have 2 parents, and in our case, the blonde-blue eyes of my brother, David, comes from our mother. Going back a generation, our Q1b1a grandfather had brown hair but his wife-our grandmother, had black hair. This is how we're not all clones of each other in looks and personalities; different parents with all their mixtures of genes.

    ReplyDelete
  75. i am learning here thank you Nadne ,
    i am rooman khan , in facebook Rooman khan and G+ Rooman khan too

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Happy that I can help you learn a few things, Rooman. You're a good friend.

      Delete
  76. Thanks, Khan. That's why I write. I'm hoping to help people learn about Israel. I'm happy to hear that you are learning from my articles.

    ReplyDelete
  77. cmsouza1960 has left a new comment on your post "Demographics of Jews in Israel and Their DNA Haplo...":

    "No I do not think the Jewish people ever did anything that justified hate! What I think it is certain groups of people refused to take responsibility for their own problems in life. Christians should never consider that we are the replacement we should consider the Jewish people our brothers and sisters our bible came from the five books of Moses. People really need to look for the how we are the same and not on how we are different."
    Souza, I don't know why this hasn't appeared as yet, so I copied and pasted from my personal source. It's a great comment. Thanks. It's what I feel, also.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. J1 and J2 is Sayyid. J1 are the real ancestors of Muhammad, Abraham, Jacob, and the twelve Tribes, through Ali Muhammads heir in Indian/Iran. Only J2 is not really Israel, they are Persian, Elam and Arians. They are related some where but you can't tell by their DNA because it is no different then the people of the area. Most people who claim to be the Sayyid ancestors of Muhammad, are not. My fathers Nordic Viking is J1. J2 and J1 from India/Iran made up the Nordic Vikings, and alot of Germany/France/Russia. Hitler was not a jew, he was E1 from Elam Iran. Research J1 and J2 in Iran. ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid

      Delete
    2. Also Afghana (as in Afghanistan) was the grandson of King Saul, who lived in the house David and helped build the temple, they migrated to the Middle East and became the Pashtoons after the first Expulsion after King Solomon died. My moms Welsh Morgan, and all the what was the Kings of all Europe and and Russia, are the Turks/Turkmen/ Pakistan/Afghana/Uzbec... The Pashtoons are the original Judah R-H DNA Hologroup.... https://youtu.be/_vJaKMU9jw0

      Delete
  78. Jade, I've heard their history of being from King Saul by other Pashtos. I haven't heard of all the kings in Europe being from the Turks, though. More Pashtos need to take the Y haplogroup DNA test to find out what line they are, R is possible, but there are some Q's as well that I know of. H is a female line, not male. Have you had a DNA mt haplogroup test?

    ReplyDelete
  79. I dont understand how you can say both J2 and J1 Kohanim are from Aaron ! They cant both be .. One is and one isnt . So which one is telling the truth ? J1 Cohens or J2 Cohens ?

    ReplyDelete
  80. Mercedes, Both haplotypes have been found in men who are Cohens in the synagogue. The title comes with responsibilities handed down from father to son in every generation. Think of a tree with branches. They sit on the J branch and are twigs off of that branch. I trust the population geneticists are great scientists and do not lie. This is a new field. We're all learning.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Mary, your article should pop up. I'm glad you found out about your Jewish heritage. I've read that this is happening to people quite a bit with Mexican American heritage. There is a lot of information about it. I've probably written several articles. What happened was that in 1492, the Spanish Inquisition said that all Jews, and there were many living in Spain, had to convert to Catholicism or leave the country. To pick up and leave was very hard to do. Many stayed and converted, but not really. They could not change their hearts, and practiced their religion secretly. That means they kept their dietary laws, had the Sabbath on Friday nights and Saturday, but in secret. If they were caught, they were killed. Those that could, had fled to Portugal. Then it caught up with them there. The Spanish Inquisition even followed people to Mexico. Of course, those that converted passed this onto their children, and the years passed by and then you have a generation who has not learned about their history anymore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the reply! And this is good information for me to understand further. I am also of the haplogroup J1b and I have Askhenazi, North African, West African, middle eastern and of course Iberian and Southern Europe :) But since my ancestors move to Mexico I also am half American Indian. I didn't understand how I could be Ashkenazi and middle eastern! But ironically, my husband shortly after booked us a trip to Andalusia and it made sense, Southern Spain, especially Seville obviously had a good population of middle eastern influence, you can tell in the architecture! And when the flamenco singers sing, it sounds of Arabian influence :) I learned a whole lot about my history that Ashkenazi and middle eastern didn't seem far-fetched anymore. I was more amazed that I didn't start off Spanish but as I mention, J1b, so from the near east! I had been working on my family tree, I have gone 5 generations back so far, so I decided to take my DNA test, now I want to have an understanding of why my family may have moved to Spain and what made them completely hide their identity, so it seems, because we all were surprised of my Ashkenazi and middle east and North African DNA, so yes, through the generations, it was forgotten, but I want to understand the story and bring it back to life :)

      Delete
  82. Remember, Mary. Your J1b is the mtDNA j. There are two kinds, the Y haplotype (males only) and the mt haplotype (females only). Be sure to read my other article, What haplogroup We be? http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-haplogroup-we-be.html I had found 30% of Jews had this. There's a lot more information on it. I'm happy for you to have taken the DNA test to find all this out about yourself. You see, there's a lot more to you than you thought. You know, I took dancing lessons all my life since I was about 5 years old. After taking tap, ballet, toe, I took Spanish dancing, complete with the castenets, high heel shoes; flamenco, etc. I loved it the best. Of course I was older then, but sure loved the costumes-dresses with all those ruffles from the hips down. Now that you wrote this, no wonder I go crazy over Spanish dancing. Russian music does the same thing to me, too, but I have to get up and dance with the Spanish.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Nadene! An interesting update. I searched further to a population study that gives me more direct "population blood lines" of living family members throughout the world. So my J1b haplogroup is from the Northern Iran region, the caucasus mountains and Caspian Sea.
      I am related to the Uygurs, which seem to be close to Turkey, the Uygurs are the descendants of the Tocharian Mummies from China that have been tested to be from the Iranian region. The Uygurs practiced Hinduism.
      I also am related to the Hazaran from Central/South Asia, like the Uygurs, they are a mixed European looking and Asian and their ancient religion is Hinduism.
      I'm related to the Burusho tribe from Central/South Asia, said to be the descendants of the Hunza from the Himalayan mountains and lived unnaturally long lives. They look as well Northwestern European and Asian and middle east.
      And now MAYBE this might be my Jewish connection, I am related to the PATHANS/PASHTUNS who are said to be the descendants of King Saul! And it's questions that they may be one of the lost tribes of Israel, I saw a documentary about how the Pashtuns have a very similar way of life and religious customs like the Jews and similar words, so maybe my dna could be the scientific link if this theory holds any water of them actually being one of the lost tribes and their origins are unclear to history.
      Lastly, I am related to the Balochi tribe, who are said to be related to the Pashtuns, from the Balochistan region of the southeastern-most edge of the Iranian plateau in Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan, as well as in the Arabian Peninsula.
      Other than that, I am related to plenty of Germans, Northern French, Austrians, Norwegians, English, southern Italy and Tuscany (in Italy). This is not the typical family DNA match, it is a population DNA match, this is from 23andme, then the regular DNA match which tells me I have a whole lot more places in the world I'm related to :D If you remember me, I told you before I always thought I was just Hispanic. But maybe this can give more clarity on the J1b haplogroup. So basically, I share population DNA with Northwestern Europe, Northern Iran-the Caucasus Mountains and Caspian Sea region and a touch of the middle east.

      Delete
    2. Terrific, Mary! You did an excellent job of finding this information. I've written a lot about the Pashtuns. I know one who is a Q1b like my father's line. So I take it your J1 line is from the female side of mtDNA of which is common in the Near East, Europe, the Caucasus, N. Africa and the Middle East and among Jews. 23 & Me does give a lot of good information. Now you'll want to transfer your test to GedMatch.com and you'll find out even more info being they have the tools to do this and you'll be able to find matches to your segments of dna from other companies. Good going! You know, this makes sense since the Jews going into Persia (Iran) happened when Babylonia attacked Israel in 597, 586 BCE, then in 1492 CE were forced out of Spain, so when the Jews were allowed back from Babylonia, their descendants had gone to places like Tuscany, etc. We've picked up a lot of genes over a long period of time!

      Delete
  83. Ancient Israel had close relations with its neighbors. Tribes marrying to these groups... Phoenicians and Israel had close relations, reviewing passages

    1 Ki 9:26–27, 1 Ki 10:22, 2 Ch 8:17–18, Eze 27:8, Jon 1:3

    Israel had fleet of merchants, close allies with Phoenician city states, and shared crews. The territories of the Israelite tribes of Asher, Zebulon, and Dan were part of Phoenicia. Now the question arises how old was Jewish presence in Spain? IMO dealing with multiple population migrations, none homogeneous regarding haplogroups...

    ReplyDelete
  84. Thanks for the information, St No. Spain's settlement of Jews is said to have happened from the period of the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar in the Babylonian attack when so many Jews were carried away. According to legend, Spain was the biblical Sepharad. It is certain that they were to be found there in the 1st Century. When the 2nd Temple fell to the Romans in 70 CE, Jews were forced out of Jerusalem, and that's when we scattered. Some went to "Spain" and others went towards France-Rhineland, where Romans had most likely been, too. Those became the Ashkenazis, my ancestors being included in this group.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Makes sense following established trade routes from both periods. Israelites had been traced to SE Africa following the first temple. There had been known Jewish communities from Iberia to India at the time of Roman Diaspora. Italy served as a major point of Jewish culture following the revolts.

      Delete
    2. Your mentioning of Nebuchadnezzar (587-586 BC) also reminds me of another topic. The Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa, commissioned by The Egyptian king Necho II (610 to 595 BCE). This was a three-year expedition as recorded by Herodotus, recently reenacted Phoenicia Expedition (2008-2009). Then with the recent genetics studies of the Lemba, I would hope more J1/J2 DNA research is conducted in E. Africa.

      Delete
  85. Shalom ! and Thawada for the opportunity to share on this forum. I would like for you to take a look at these videos and give me your opinion on what these rabbi are saying. i've enjoyed this forum and found it quite interesting and very informative. be blessed ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gf6UAIVeJQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIXZyEli3Q4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN9ODcFcgbo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h5Ylr4EPH4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEDfrBBPZzg

    ReplyDelete
  86. Jesse, to answer you about these videos, the rabbi is showing that the Ethiopian Jews, and some other Black tribal people that say they are Jewish, are Jews through intermarriage, but not from the DNA originally from 10 of our 12 tribes carried who were taken by the Assyrians in 722 BCE. Their DNA came from Judah's tribal members, who are today's Jews more likely from the time before and around 70 CE who were taken by the Romans as slaves into many places including Africa. They evidently mixed with these Blacks and taught them about Judaism. We also had traders going into many places and eventually mixed with tribal Blacks and who taught them about Judaism. It's happening even today. Some Jewish men have married Black women. From what I remember reading, the Ethiopians are not carrying any genes showing they are connected to Judaism unless further testing shows this, but a tribe in Africa does how they are carrying the Cohen gene of J1 haplogroup. The point is that Jacob had 12 sons. Jacob was not black. Two of his wives were Israelite sisters and the other 2 were their handmaidens from Egypt or surrounding lands. None of this group consisted of Black members. Blacks have intermarried much later.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. there were no white slaves in Egypt, there weren't even white people in Egypt until the Roman Invasion. You are the part of the beast that floods the woman with lies, so that her seed is destroyed. you are esau.

      Delete
    2. No, Stacey, I'm from a lot of Jews, and Jews came from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and many others, and Esau would be the father of our cousins who did not follow Isaac and his son Jacob. Who ever told you there were no Semitic slaves in Egypt? Semites are part of the White group of people in the world, but are called Semites. Part of the beast, huh? You're not a very nice woman. It's your way or the highway, it sounds like. You have opinions that do not agree with my facts that come from science.

      Delete
  87. oh yeah? what about the E1B1 of all the black American Hebrews brought here from the slave trade? Did you forget about THAT? how convenient...

    ReplyDelete
  88. Stacey, many Jews are of the Y dna haplogroup of E-L117, found today in their dna testing. They are not Black. E originated 50,000 years ago AND SHARES A COMMON ANCESTRY WITH HAPLOGROUP d. It contains a number of groups in Africa and the Middle East. Some derived clades are also found at moderate frequencies in the populations of Europe, particularly among those that reside near the Mediterranean, which is believed to represent ancient genetic influence from the Middle East to Europe.

    As for Blacks, E3a is an African lineage that most likely dispersed south from northern kAfrica within the last 3,000 years with the Bantu agricultural expansion. It is the most common lineage among African Americans.
    Reference: kAbraham's Children Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People by Jon Entine

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. typo: Africa
      Abraham's

      finger hit the k.

      Delete
  89. Hebrews are a Semitic bloodline and E1B1 is not a Semitic bloodline, but is from Africa. Here is what I found on it from Eupedia:
    Geographic distribution

    Outside Europe, E1b1b is found at high frequencies in Morocco (over 80%), Somalia (80%), Ethiopia (40% to 80%), Tunisia (70%), Algeria (60%), Egypt (40%), Jordan (25%), Palestine (20%), and Lebanon (17.5%). On the European continent it has the highest concentration in Kosovo (over 45%), Albania and Montenegro (both 27%), Bulgaria (23%), Macedonia and Greece (both 21%), Cyprus (20%), Sicily (20%), South Italy (18.5%), Serbia (18%) and Romania (15%).

    Much more can be found here:
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

    ReplyDelete
  90. Also look at this:
    Today, most of the tribes such as Quraysh & Bani-Hashem in Arabic countries are related to Adnanites who descend from Ishmael. Based on Arab genealogical tradition, the Adnanites are “Arabized Arabs” (Arab-i Musta’jimah) whereas the Qahtanite tribes are thought to be (pure Arabs) the local people of Arabia. Today, in genetic projects, we see that most of people from Qahtani tribes are usually related to the lineages of E1b1 whereas Adnanites are mostly related to haplogroup J1. However, it is also possible to see J1-FGC11 among Qahtanites, who might be of Adnanite origin in fact. It is known that Adnanites spread through Arabian peninsula when they grew in number.
    http://www.haplogroups.org/haplogroup-j1-is-not-semitic

    ReplyDelete