Nadene Goldfoot
Egypt, Israel , Arabia. Lebanon and Syria ,called Aram originally, now turning into IS, are the oldest countries in the Middle East. Egypt has been there forever. The Egyptians probably have changed very little. The Egyptians started off in about 3200 to 2686 BCE in the Early Dynastic Period. By the time Abraham came along with descendant, Jacob, it was already the period for Egyptians of the Middle Kingdom from 2055 to 1650 BCE which was the 11th and 12th dynasties. Probably the first Hebrew immigration into Egypt was when the Semitic Hyksos Dynasty of 18th to 16th centuries BCE.
It's then that Egypt was closely involved in Palestinian affairs, proven by the Tel-el-Amarna letters which tell of the first Israelite incursions into Egypt. Moses was born during the Egyptian's New Kingdom period of 1550 to 1069 BCE which was their 18th to 20th Dynasty period. If anything, a few Jews may bear segments of Egyptian chromosomes due to rapes, etc while living under slavery. If an Egyptian man begat a male child, it would have had a new haplotype. King Solomon married an Egyptian princess. Before that, Abraham had relations with the Egyptian Princess Hagar, handmaiden of wife Sarah, and had a child.
Israel is right behind them in age. Abraham lived in Canaan around 1800 BCE. That's how far back the original band of 70 go led by Jacob, his grandson. Then 400 years were spent in Egypt as slaves and returning 40 years later to live there permanently transpired. They returned with not only the descendants of the original family of Abraham, but also with other slaves who had been captured by the Egyptians. All were freed and followed Moses. By DNA, we find that the family of Jacob probably carried the J1 haplotype, and the other haplotypes of E, G, etc found in the Jewish men could have had this reason for haplotypes other than J1. Even after 400 years of living in Egypt and becoming slaves, the 12 tribes did a good job of living among their tribal members while under forced labor. .
Joshua entered the land for Moses, who died just outside at the age of 120. From then on, they had to fight Canaanites and Phoenicians for the land. These people were killed in the fight, and if not, were assimilated into the family of Israelites, for that is what the people of Moses and Joshua were called, Israelites and the land was Israel. Jacob, the ancestor of Abraham, had been so named as Israel, and it was he who led the band of 70 originally.
The Israelites had 3 kings of importance; Saul, David and his son, Solomon. When King Solomon died in 920 BCE, the Israelite kingdom split with the southern part which belonged to the tribe of Judah, parted from the north and became Judah. They fought for a while over political differences. Jerusalem stayed with Judah.
These Israelites, once called Hebrews as they had entered from the East into Ur and birthed Abraham, stayed together until 722 BCE when the Assyrians attacked and took away 10 of the 12 tribes of Jacob (Israel). Today we know they were pretty well scattered throughout Assyria. Many Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan have claimed descendency from this group.
By 597 and 586 BCE, The Babylonians attacked and also carried away slaves. The Israelites and Judeans were not killed, but used as slaves. In the olden days, people were killed in battle, but others were taken for slaves, just like the Greeks and Romans did. At this point in time, the Israelites were becoming a mixture of people who had been taken into the fold of their family as husbands and wives. The southern part of Judah underwent whole conversion. That's another source of a different haplotype.
The accusation by Muslims today is that Jews living in Israel today are not the same as the original Jews. I beg to differ. If anyone is the same in this world from 4,000 years ago, it most likely is the Egyptians and the Jews. Take me, for instance. DNA can find how much Neanderthal genes I carry in my cells, which is 2.9%. If they can go back that far, don't you realize they can do a pretty good job in finding my Jewish genes? Realize that I was born Jewish. That's the ticket. We are born Jewish. If our mother is Jewish, we are born Jewish. It's an inherited religion that goes back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Once we are born, we are labeled as a Jew. In the world since the days of the Greeks and Roman Empires, that has been a stigma. Nobody has wanted to cavort with a Jew. In turn, most of us prefer to marry within our own religion anyway..
It's like being born purple. We are marked. We have also been marked so much that we have been locked up in ghettos and have not been allowed to mix in a general population to find mates. So we have become an endogamous society. That means we've been forced to keep on intermarrying with each other throughout the centuries and when not forced, a preference. It's been a rather closed society. The only division has been after 70 CE when some in escaping a burning Jerusalem and death stayed within the state of Judah and their descendants are today's Mizrachim. Others traveled to what was to become Spain and are today's Sefardim. They, because of the Spanish Inquisition, have had more incidences of intermarriage leading to less distinctive DNA than the Ashkenazis who were the other Jews who most likely were already taken to Rome or lived there as traders before 70 CE were forced to leave and go to what became France and Germany and became the European branch or Ashkenazim Jews. The Ashkenazim have been relatively homogeneous despite the fact that they are spread throughout Europe and have since immigrated to the Americas and a few back to Israel.
"About 80% of today's Jewish males and 50% of Jewish females trace their ancestry back to the Middle East. The rest entered the "Jewish gene pool through conversion or intermarriage. Those who did intermarry often left the faith in a generation or 2, in effect pruning the Jewish genetic tree. Many converts became interwoven into the Jewish genealogical line. Remember Ruth, of Moab who married Boaz and became the great-grandmother of King David. She began as an outsider, but you don't get much more Jewish than the bloodline of King David!"
Some misguided people are so devoid of our history that they think Jews just popped up in Europe. I know this because I've been assailed by this accusation on some of my articles. They think that the creation of Israel was done by Europeans, and have no business there. Not so at all.
Many Jews are unaware of their own history. Because of WWII and 6 million Jews being slaughtered, many lost records of their family lines, records that were quite well kept as of 1040 when RASHI, the great biblical commentator was born in Troyes, France. Take me, for instance. I knew that my paternal grandfather, carrier of the DNA haplotype of Q1b1a, was born and raised in Telsiai, Lithuania and managed to get himself to Council, Idaho and then Portland, Oregon. That's what I knew. What DNA has supplied me with along with a method called triangulation, was that I discovered our connection to Austrian and German Jews. Our surname was German as well, being Goldfus in the original form. So I found out that our migration pattern went from Rome (where I have DNA segments) to RASHI through a Rabbi Wertheimer who lived in Worms, Germany born in 1658. From then to 1870, my ancestors made it to Lithuania.
Looking at history, the reason Jews left Germany and Austria way back then over 1,000 years ago was political and anti-Semitic. As they kept on traveling north, they would be invited to live in a country, and then expelled for these same reasons. Finally, terrible anti-Semitism in Russian lands caused many to take the fairly dangerous trip to the United States or "Palestine.' before the USA was available. Our grandparents found anti-Semitism here as well, but usually didn't lead to pogroms and death. Europe was another story. Anti-Semitism was gaining power, causing many European Jews to emigrate to their homeland, now called Palestine. They started the creation of the original homeland, Israel.
The Jordanians are not native of the land of Israel. They came from Arabia, losing out on being king, Abdullah I wanted to have a kingdom in another part of the Middle East. Palestinian Arabs originally called themselves Palestinian Syrians. They were from those northern tribes originally and many surrounding neighbors according to the research done by Joan Peters, who went to original sources in her book about their history. Only a very few owned land in Palestine at the time of the 1880 Russian Jewish aliyah. More came to the land seeking jobs with the newly arriving Jews.
Lebanon is mentioned in the Bible in relation to the Cedars of Lebanon when they were used by Solomon in building the Temple. The Jewish population living there goes back to ancient times. Jews lived in Beirut, Tripoli, Tyre and Sidon and were traders.
Syria (Aram) never did have a homogeneous state. The coast was settled by Phoenicians. Syria was overrun by the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE. Jews lived here in Antioch as well, most likely traders. During the Seleucid era from 323 BCE to 64 BCE, Jews suffered from the hostility of the Greeks. The most important Aramean kingdom in Syria in the 10th to 8th centuries BCE was Aram-Dammesek, called after its capital, Damascus/Hebrew is Dammesek. In 920 BCE, when Israel was divided into Israel and Judah it became the great danger to Israel.
Abraham came from Aram-Naharaim or Aram of the 2 Rivers. This was the biblical description for the NE area of Mesopotamia. It's the land of origin of the patriarchs, and nearly all the names of the ancestors of Abraham, that is Serug, Nahor, and Terah, all correspond to place-names in this region. Abraham was the father of Ishmael through Hagar, the Egyptian and the father of Isaac through his wife, Sarah, who was his niece-family. Abraham's father was Terah. Abraham's brother was Haran, who was the father of Sarah. Nahor was Terah's father. Serug was Nahor's father. They keep going back till they reach Shem, one of the 3 sons of Noah. There was Ham, Japheth, and Shem. Abraham must have brought the story of the Flood with him and passed it onto his children.
As Noah passed on his story of his flood to his children, so we Jews have passed on our story of our purpose and existence through our Torah. No, we didn't pop up in Europe. Our ancestors, of who we carry with us in our DNA, knew Jacob-Israel and the 12 tribes very well. Jews have claimed back their land.
Jews have been afraid of the concept that Judaism might be a race, but medical geneticist, Harry Ostrer insists the "biological basis of Jewishness" cannot be ignored.
The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia
haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664?...by Jon Entine
http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2015/06/what-are-jewish-origins.html
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html
 |
| 722 BCE Assyrian Empire Notice that Jerusalem is on this map. It's been there since King David 1010 BCE. Part of Western Asia with Semitic people Kings David and Solomon had success against the Aramean states in Mesopotamia and Syria that helped Assyria recover from lost battles. |
It's then that Egypt was closely involved in Palestinian affairs, proven by the Tel-el-Amarna letters which tell of the first Israelite incursions into Egypt. Moses was born during the Egyptian's New Kingdom period of 1550 to 1069 BCE which was their 18th to 20th Dynasty period. If anything, a few Jews may bear segments of Egyptian chromosomes due to rapes, etc while living under slavery. If an Egyptian man begat a male child, it would have had a new haplotype. King Solomon married an Egyptian princess. Before that, Abraham had relations with the Egyptian Princess Hagar, handmaiden of wife Sarah, and had a child.
 |
| 12 Tribes of Judah-Israel |
Joshua entered the land for Moses, who died just outside at the age of 120. From then on, they had to fight Canaanites and Phoenicians for the land. These people were killed in the fight, and if not, were assimilated into the family of Israelites, for that is what the people of Moses and Joshua were called, Israelites and the land was Israel. Jacob, the ancestor of Abraham, had been so named as Israel, and it was he who led the band of 70 originally.
 |
| King David, son of Jesse-grandson of Boaz and Ruth of tribe of Judah 1010-970 BCE |
 |
| King Solomon, David's son 961-920 BCE |
 |
| King Saul of tribe of Benjamin -c1040-1010 BCE 1st king of Israel |
These Israelites, once called Hebrews as they had entered from the East into Ur and birthed Abraham, stayed together until 722 BCE when the Assyrians attacked and took away 10 of the 12 tribes of Jacob (Israel). Today we know they were pretty well scattered throughout Assyria. Many Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan have claimed descendency from this group.
 |
| Babylonian Empire 586 BCE It was known as the land of Shinar or of the Kasdim (Chaldees). Part of Western Asia |
 |
| Chaim Weizmann, Jew, on left and Emir Feisal on right. Feisal Ibn Hussein 1885-1933 was the eldest son of Hussein, sherif of Mecca. He was from Saudi Arabia. Feisal became King of Iraq from 1921 CE. Chaim Weizmann 1874-1952 was born at Motel, near Pinsk, Belarus. A chemist, became the 1st president of Israel. Belarus was one of states Jews were allowed to live in by the Russians. We were not allowed to "mix in" with other people of Russia. |
It's like being born purple. We are marked. We have also been marked so much that we have been locked up in ghettos and have not been allowed to mix in a general population to find mates. So we have become an endogamous society. That means we've been forced to keep on intermarrying with each other throughout the centuries and when not forced, a preference. It's been a rather closed society. The only division has been after 70 CE when some in escaping a burning Jerusalem and death stayed within the state of Judah and their descendants are today's Mizrachim. Others traveled to what was to become Spain and are today's Sefardim. They, because of the Spanish Inquisition, have had more incidences of intermarriage leading to less distinctive DNA than the Ashkenazis who were the other Jews who most likely were already taken to Rome or lived there as traders before 70 CE were forced to leave and go to what became France and Germany and became the European branch or Ashkenazim Jews. The Ashkenazim have been relatively homogeneous despite the fact that they are spread throughout Europe and have since immigrated to the Americas and a few back to Israel.
Some misguided people are so devoid of our history that they think Jews just popped up in Europe. I know this because I've been assailed by this accusation on some of my articles. They think that the creation of Israel was done by Europeans, and have no business there. Not so at all.
Many Jews are unaware of their own history. Because of WWII and 6 million Jews being slaughtered, many lost records of their family lines, records that were quite well kept as of 1040 when RASHI, the great biblical commentator was born in Troyes, France. Take me, for instance. I knew that my paternal grandfather, carrier of the DNA haplotype of Q1b1a, was born and raised in Telsiai, Lithuania and managed to get himself to Council, Idaho and then Portland, Oregon. That's what I knew. What DNA has supplied me with along with a method called triangulation, was that I discovered our connection to Austrian and German Jews. Our surname was German as well, being Goldfus in the original form. So I found out that our migration pattern went from Rome (where I have DNA segments) to RASHI through a Rabbi Wertheimer who lived in Worms, Germany born in 1658. From then to 1870, my ancestors made it to Lithuania.
Looking at history, the reason Jews left Germany and Austria way back then over 1,000 years ago was political and anti-Semitic. As they kept on traveling north, they would be invited to live in a country, and then expelled for these same reasons. Finally, terrible anti-Semitism in Russian lands caused many to take the fairly dangerous trip to the United States or "Palestine.' before the USA was available. Our grandparents found anti-Semitism here as well, but usually didn't lead to pogroms and death. Europe was another story. Anti-Semitism was gaining power, causing many European Jews to emigrate to their homeland, now called Palestine. They started the creation of the original homeland, Israel.
The Jordanians are not native of the land of Israel. They came from Arabia, losing out on being king, Abdullah I wanted to have a kingdom in another part of the Middle East. Palestinian Arabs originally called themselves Palestinian Syrians. They were from those northern tribes originally and many surrounding neighbors according to the research done by Joan Peters, who went to original sources in her book about their history. Only a very few owned land in Palestine at the time of the 1880 Russian Jewish aliyah. More came to the land seeking jobs with the newly arriving Jews.
Lebanon is mentioned in the Bible in relation to the Cedars of Lebanon when they were used by Solomon in building the Temple. The Jewish population living there goes back to ancient times. Jews lived in Beirut, Tripoli, Tyre and Sidon and were traders.
Syria (Aram) never did have a homogeneous state. The coast was settled by Phoenicians. Syria was overrun by the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE. Jews lived here in Antioch as well, most likely traders. During the Seleucid era from 323 BCE to 64 BCE, Jews suffered from the hostility of the Greeks. The most important Aramean kingdom in Syria in the 10th to 8th centuries BCE was Aram-Dammesek, called after its capital, Damascus/Hebrew is Dammesek. In 920 BCE, when Israel was divided into Israel and Judah it became the great danger to Israel.
 |
| Abram-Abraham-1948 BCE |
As Noah passed on his story of his flood to his children, so we Jews have passed on our story of our purpose and existence through our Torah. No, we didn't pop up in Europe. Our ancestors, of who we carry with us in our DNA, knew Jacob-Israel and the 12 tribes very well. Jews have claimed back their land.
Jews have been afraid of the concept that Judaism might be a race, but medical geneticist, Harry Ostrer insists the "biological basis of Jewishness" cannot be ignored.
The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia
haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664?...by Jon Entine
http://jewishbubba.blogspot.com/2015/06/what-are-jewish-origins.html
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html
Yes, the DNA establishes the lineage. I've just been arguing with an absurd Afrocentrist (redundancy) who claims the ancient Hebrews were black and that the Ashkenazim and Sephardim are imposters who have stolen the Hebrew identity from the true Jews. Judaism is, of course, a religion and there are undoubtedly black Jews just as there are Chinese ones; but these Sub-Saharans in the Americas, whose ancestors were torn from West and Central Africa by the Atlantic Slave Trade, come from a different part of the globe and a different genotype and have not spoken a Semitic tongue, and therefore do not match the description of ancient Hebrews. They are not Y-DNA "J," nor was their language Hebrew or Aramaic, the languages in which the "Old Testament" was written. (In fact, did Sub-Saharans have any written language at all? I don't think so.)
ReplyDeleteThe having genes that originated in the Near/Middle East--together with the languages which originated there--shuts the door on the already risible challenge offered by a people bent on identity theft.
Thanks, Lucius, we agree. You present excellent proof.
DeleteAny time, Nadine. Those people, as you probably know, are claiming to be the "real" everybody--including the Olmecs of Mexico, the Persians, Moors, Egyptians (among whom there does seem to have been a Negroid element, but not such as to make ancient Egypt black wholly and per se, as was Nubia), Greeks, Celts, Guanches, Colchians, Arabians AND Hebrews. It's only a matter of time before they go after the Romans, from whom I am chiefly descended. I guess eventually it'll be the Confederate Army, Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and his cabinet. LOL!
ReplyDeleteWhat, Luius, are you saying? AND Hebrews in this same catagory? I'm from the Hebrews. Those were the ancestors of the Jews, who are of the tribe of Judah, and including a few from Benjamin. I just wrote an article telling why. So much for your reading ability. Too many anti-Semities are trying to convince people that we just hatched out of Europe! NO, that's not our source. The Middle East is our source, and from Israel. We Ashkenazis lived in Europe for 2,000 years, but it's not where we came from
DeleteAND, we're not after any Romans, who I presume you are saying are the ancestors of today's Italians, of course. In fact, I have a few genes that are Italian. We were taken as captives by the Romans when they took Jerusalem in 70CE. I've had my DNA tested, Lucius, and I do not have any negroid genes. Not that this is bad, mind you, but let's stick to scientific facts along with the truth, period. Actually, I don't know who you are, saying these Blacks will next be going after people who have long since been dead. As for Blacks living in Israel, they are Jewish but came in with their own history. It's a country which is a refuge for our 0.02% of the world population who happen be be Jewish and haven't been treated humanely at all by the rest of the world's religions.
No, you didn't mean it as your comment stood by itself. I had to go back and reread your other comments. You haven't suddenly changed. But I'm sure they are not going to claim to be the original Romans. Why they've picked the Jews is a mystery to me. I think it's their way of attacking us-a part of their anti-Semitism.
DeleteLucius, also, I wonder if this person you were arguing with wasn't the same one I've had similar messaging with. They have been fed such false information! It's hard to get people to see that they are swallowing such lies. I think they just want to believe them, regardless. It's a mindset.
ReplyDeleteYES--they want to believe the lies. Blacks, for whom the last few centuries have been traumatic, seem desperately to be seeking a more flattering self-image; and while I understand that, I think they're going about it in the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteOh Nadine, the person with whom you've been debating NEEDN'T be the same person! There are jillions of melanocentrists out there and people influenced by melanocentrism (my word for Afrocentrism, which I don't use any more because it lends credence to the melanocentric assumption that "African" is synonymous with "black"--though in fact Mediterranean Africa has been chiefly Caucasoid for millennia).
HUH?! I said the MELANOCENTRISTS are identifying themselves with a whole spectrum of human groups, among them the Hebrews. WHO here said the Hebrews were Negroid?! I've said they weren't. I've said they were Semites from the Near/Middle East. Nor did I say you were of Roman background, only that I am. No, you're the one who's misread! A wonder, because you read my first and second posts so well!
ReplyDeleteLOL--Nadene: were you thinking that the thread was too tame because we were agreeing? Well, you found things to disagree with, only they can't be found in my posts!
ReplyDeleteWell, that's better! What are ya trying to do, give me a heart attack, kid? As for the melanocentrists attempting someday to steal the Romans' identity, I'm not saying how probable that is, but would you be surprised if they did try???!!! Look at the list of peoples whose history they've been trying to steal! I mentioned the Southern Confederates in jocular fashion, but consider that there are blacks who maintain that the first US president was black (a John Hanson) and that the Statue of Liberty depicts a black woman.... Maybe their claiming Jefferson Davis ain't so far-fetched after all--LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteWell, this is my only means of communicating with you, so I'm saying it here. It seems that you decide what appears on the page and that you've prevented my replies to your STRANGE about-face (based, it seems, on an incredible misreading of an earlier post of mine)from appearing on the page. Or, at the very least, they have not appeared, and many hours have passed since I typed them. The upshot is that you make it seem I said something diametrically opposite to what I did say, and censor my surprised reaction and correction of your error. Now, you can eliminate your post which begins with "What, Lucius, are you saying?" and all will be well. But if you keep it AND censor my replies to it, I'll have to conclude that you don't deserve to have commentators here. Of course you can keep this off the page too, and I won't mind; I'd rather not have it there; I just knew of no other way to register my concerns.
ReplyDeleteOy, Lucius, you've got me coming and going here. Ha, you almost gave me a heart attack with that 2nd message. Yes, I'd be surprised with the Melocentrists if they attempted to try to say they were the first Romans. What? I hadn't heard of all these shenanigans they've said to be the originals-in the South? Good grief! Oh, I guess this comes from them not reading history. Lucius, the answer to a lot of this is education, and even that has to be vetted. Parents have to watch what their children are being taught. I hope there are still students out there who have learned to check on authors of books they read to see where they are coming from, and I don't mean countries, I mean their background, their experience, frame of mind, education. Sorry to have jumped on you.
ReplyDeleteOkay, Nadene. Shalom.
Delete